The Slight Edge for overcoming "nice guy" behaviors

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arcade_fireee
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Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:48 pm

My problem I'm trying to solve is that I'm a major people-pleaser. That is, when talking to people, I say what I think they wanna hear. When in public, I never do anything that I think someone would find weird, offensive, annoying, etc. If someone seems like they're in a bad mood, I basically walk on eggshells around them, trying not to upset them even more. If I'm around my liberal friends, I never speak up about my slightly conservative beliefs. Etc. I could give a lot of specific examples. Basically, my personality is really suppressed and I can never be my real self around people, since that would risk conflict and upsetting people.

I'm trying to use Andy's kickass slight edge article to reverse these behaviors, and I'm finding it tricky to break this down into discreet, measurable goals. Here are some ideas I have for discreet sub-goals:
  • Be very emotionally expressive while playing video games while my roommate is around. This means get excited, yell at the TV, celebrate, get mad, etc. I currently suppress all of this so as not to "annoy" my roommate.
  • Whistle/sing at full volume when my roommate is home, with no sense of "holding myself back" at all
  • When someone asks if I want to do something that I don't really want to do (e.g., my roommate asking if I want to watch a movie), say no, confidently and not apologetically
  • My brother gave me a Trump hat. I don't necessarily like Trump (I don't want this to turn into a political discussion), but my roommate is very liberal, so I want to get comfortable wearing the hat around him. A baby-step toward this would be watching conservative YouTube videos around him (e.g., Jordan Peterson). I'm very afraid that he'd get actively angry and/or not want to be friends anymore if he thought I was a Trump supporter.
  • Get comfortable saying "fuck" around my parents. I was raised Christian, so this would be pretty hard, since I would expect a not-so-great reaction from them. But I'm an adult so they shouldn't get to control what language I'm allowed to use anymore.
  • Say politically incorrect things around my politically-correct friends (e.g., "gay", "retard")
A lot of these goals are about getting "comfortable" doing something, but how do I track when I've achieved that? Merely being able to do something once doesn't mean I'm comfortable with it or that it will then make me more expressive and confident in everyday life. I need to get comfortable with this stuff, but I'm not sure how you measure that, so that I know when to move on to focusing on the next thing.

Additionally, some of these are logistically hard to practice. That is, for some of them I'm at the mercy of a specific event arising (e.g., someone asking if I want to do something I don't want to do), and then I basically get one shot at successfully acting how I'm trying to act in that scenario. I miss the days when my main goal was hitting on one girl a day, because there were basically an infinite stream of opportunities, so if I chickened out, I could just immediately try again. But with something like learning to say "no" to people, that opportunity arises maybe...once a week? So if I chicken out in the moment (which is likely), I gotta wait another week to try again, and when the opportunity arises again, it'll probably catch me off guard and I won't be likely to take advantage of it.

Also, has anyone dealt with and successfully overcome this kind of "nice guy" stuff before? I've been reading a lot of "theory" about it (lots of books and stuff), but I want to actually start translating this into discreet action steps.

For anyone else trying to improve in this area, I highly recommend the book Not Nice: https://www.amazon.com/Not-Nice-Pleasin ... NrPXRydWU=
boblikestacos666
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Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:57 pm

1, 2 seem like very annoying roommate behavior. Annoying your roommates for the sake of annoying your roommates.

5 seems like being a dick to your parents. Personally, I try to have some respect for my parents.

The others seem like fair game.
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arcade_fireee
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Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:06 pm

boblikestacos666 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:57 pm
1, 2 seem like very annoying roommate behavior. Annoying your roommates for the sake of annoying your roommates.

5 seems like being a dick to your parents. Personally, I try to have some respect for my parents.

The others seem like fair game.
With the annoying my roommate thing, I'm trying to overcome an active, conscious, neurotic fear of annoying people that I carry with me anytime I'm around people. I can't really think of a way to overcome that other than by kind of pushing the limits of my comfort zone and see what I can get away with before people start actually getting annoyed. If he asks me to stop I totally would. One idea I'm trying to implement is "I can't read my roommates' mind; I don't know if he's annoyed at my whistling. Therefore, I'm going to do it until he asks me to stop."

With swearing around my parents -- they've never asked me NOT to (in my adult life, at least). I don't know how they'd respond. Might be worth finding out; maybe they woudn't really care.
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DNPTHC
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Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:17 pm

Sometimes I think all this manosphere stuff that’s gurus promote can be just a counter productive for dudes learning communication skills.

There’s a good line between standing up for yourself being assertive etc and then just being an asshole haha.

Any anxiety neuroticism “nice guy” behavior ..... any thing else you might insert. Will go away if you do the AA and GOA programs from GLL.

At least it did for me. I’m sure anybody else on this forum who’s done it can testify as well.
Flash Bang
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:08 am

DNPTHC wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:17 pm
Any anxiety neuroticism “nice guy” behavior ..... any thing else you might insert. Will go away if you do the AA and GOA programs from GLL.
I've come across GLL and the AA program for the first time yesterday. Thanks to opening my eyes to this second one also.
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arcade_fireee
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:13 am

Hmm...I have a bunch of goals I want to achieve. I thought this one was the most "urgent" though, since it affects like all my social interactions. Are you saying that I should actually forget about this one, because it will kind of take care of itself as I gain confidence through achieving other goals? That'd be lit.
chado wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:51 am
all this pseudo science bullshit is irrelevant.
Also, what were you referring to here?
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Radical
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:22 am

I think a lot of us started out trying to train ourselves out of behaviours and instead found that gaining real world experience and working on goals with simple easy to follow plans was a much better way of improving. You dont want to overthink shit were possible

Being nice and helpful to others doesnt stop you enjoying life. Not in my experience anyway

Also if you can remove politics from your life you will be happier. Trust
Last edited by Radical on Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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BouffeQ
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:23 am

I agree - it is fine to be nice.
What is not fine is:
-expect rewards/success/privileges/whatever for being nice (the typical 'I was nice to that girl and now she says she just want to be friend').
-stop yourself from doing whatever you want, because you are scared of someone thinking you might not be nice.
-giving priority to pleasing other people, before yourself.

There is no need to force it. Just do wtf makes you happy, bring you closer to your goals... You can be nice AND selfish.

I personally swear all the time, it's in my personality - I am actually known as the guy who swears, especially at the office. I am super creative and swear in multiple languages - most people find it hilarious, some hates it. I don't give a fuck. It relieves my stress and help me go through tough days. But if you never swear in your life, there is no point to start now.
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SIGMA_1234
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:22 am

arcade_fireee wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:13 am
Are you saying that I should actually forget about this one, because it will kind of take care of itself as I gain confidence through achieving other goals? That'd be lit.
Yes, forget it.

I have to agree with @chado here. I was (and still am) a disgustingly nice guy, if you know me irl. Like, school nerd, church boy, and obedient son nice (aiming to change this, too). And there is nothing wrong with starting like that. What's not fine is these bullets you have here. From my point, they're not fine; they're repulsive.

We're both the same as being nice guys, but please don't do the bullets. There's a reason we don't do this normally; we know it's insensitive to others' feelings.

Oh, and I hope you understand we are saying this from a position of love and concern. Don't be ashamed. We are all working to become better ourselves.
Last edited by SIGMA_1234 on Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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terry_crews87
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:48 am

No offence dude , but those are the most hilarious goals I've ever heard anyone ever say out loud. But I love you for coming on here and saying it! LOL!! ...Just wow I love it. These guys are giving you good advice, and it makes me laugh just how everybody has different things going on in their head.

I had to fight it for a really long time, but I would always drop F bombs around my religous parents non-stop to the point where they would tell me to stop and I could see it was bothering my Mother alot. They're cool , and its annoying if someone makes a big deal about you letting one slip out in a reasonable scenario. But then I thought, "Why the hell do I want to swear around my sweet mother? Shes given me everything, if she doesn't like that language, then don't use it. It took me a long time to realize, but people who swear all the time sound so incredibly dumb and ignorant most of the time. I'm convinced its a huge turn off to women. It makes you sound like a dumb caveman if you can't come up with other words to use.

I swear all the time, but it has to serve a purpose. I heard a great comedian say one time, saying "fuck" is like a spice on an already good meal. It brings out the best , and most emotional parts of the story to great effect. A well placed swear word is great in a lot of scenarios. Saying "fuck" and "shit" because you can't speak english, makes you sound like a (excuse me here please) a fucking retard.

I actually thought what you said sounded so God damn ridiculous, but then I realized its not AT ALL. I do every single one of the things you listed. I know things don't always come across the way you want them to when your typing them out to a bunch of strangers on the internet. Act however the fuck you want to act. I have always been like that so it seems very foreign to me when people don't live their life like that. And you are correct to say if your roomates complain, you would stop. Ya , your a normal human being. Yell and get excited if you want to and its natural.
Don't let me, or anybody on this site to tell you not to. But , if your doing it for some stupid social experiment then please don't.

Theres a time and a place for everything brother. Life is always about improving and learning from your mistakes. Don't fucking apologize!! The people that are attracted to Andys site are not average people. We want the best for ourselves and are putting in the work to get it. People like us are hard on ourselves, but look around!! Once you get your shit to a decent level (most people can in a year or 2 of dedicated work), your in a better place than most.
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arcade_fireee
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pm

It's funny that what sounded normal to me sounded crazy to everyone else. That's what happens when you get stuck in your own head I guess. Which is why talking about it on here is hella-important.

I'll think about these responses and post a more thorough reply later, but my immediate thought is: these goals I listed, while definitely things I wish I was comfortable doing, have a pretty fucking minor impact on my life satisfaction/enjoyment compared to other things I could be focusing on.
SIGMA_1234 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:22 am
Like, school nerd, church boy, and obedient son nice (aiming to change this, too).
How would you approach changing this?
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SIGMA_1234
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:33 pm

Still working on it. But my plan is to definitely to:

-) fix my fashion sense. Look better, because all my clothes used to reek of "good boy" vibes.
-) work on what I want. See my Side Hustle to Digital Nomad Log. The moment I get results from this (I pray to God I get it sooner than later), I expect to be more self-reliant and less likely to be pushed around by people.
-) work out and improve my physique. Only limited to simple body exercises because gyms are closed.
-) talk to more girls. I started to be a bit more playful and rebellious because I was learning that this is the vibe they want. Also helped me become more of a human being with a functioning social life.

But hey, the main point of posting here is to get help from as much guys as possible in our growth. Good on you for sharing anyway.
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Personal Goals:
-) 12% Body Fat
-) 10 books/ online courses
-) Move out of home
-) (Optional) HSK 6 Level Mandarin
-) System to work ASAP, without getting distracted.
-) Upgrade wardrobe w/ basic mandatory guy fashion items
-) 4 FWB

$ Goals:
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-) US$5k/ mo nomad income

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Business:
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benstrong26
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:05 pm

@arcade_fireee I think you’d get a lot out of reading Models by Mark Manson. You can be nice but also express yourself honestly.

For example, if you find a girl to be attractive and you tell her that, you aren’t being a nice guy. A nice guy wouldn’t come out and say that for fear of offending her by coming on too strong. However you aren’t being a dick either, you are being a confident man who isn’t afraid to express himself.
king87
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:07 pm

That old Models. I remember the times Iwas reading Game/Models/Bang series.

Beautiful times
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SIGMA_1234
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Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:12 pm

benstrong26 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:05 pm
if you find a girl to be attractive and you tell her that, you aren’t being a nice guy. A nice guy wouldn’t come out and say that for fear of offending her by coming on too strong. However you aren’t being a dick either, you are being a confident man who isn’t afraid to express himself.
Yep. At every opportunity I see a girl, I consciously do this, too. Back at high school and uni, I was too chicken shit to say "hey you look amazing/beautiful/sexy". But now, I found out that they love that shit. Everytime I am out and about before lockdown, I compliment a girl when I genuinely like the way she looks. Now, I occasionally do it when I like the way they look in their profile picture or their IG story. Sure, some will find you a creep for saying that, but you have to stomach that to get to the ones who'll love it.

One of the things I do to minimize the "good guy" image.
Aspiring Digital Nomad

Personal Goals:
-) 12% Body Fat
-) 10 books/ online courses
-) Move out of home
-) (Optional) HSK 6 Level Mandarin
-) System to work ASAP, without getting distracted.
-) Upgrade wardrobe w/ basic mandatory guy fashion items
-) 4 FWB

$ Goals:
-) US$1k/ mo nomad income
-) US$5k/ mo nomad income

Personal Habits:
-) 1800 cals/ day
-) NoFap

Business:
-) (0/5) Local Business Websites Made Before Int'l Client Outreach
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