Hawkins Self-Improvement Adventure: 4 Dates in 6 Days

The main purpose of this forum; tell us what goals you're working on.
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Squilliam
Posts: 2067 | Thanks: 362
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:57 am
Goal: Be happy
Age: 24
Motto: Pain is temporary. Greatness lasts forever

Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:22 am

Hawkins wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:13 am
I gravitated towards this community because the emphasis on complete honesty and openness seemed much more in line with who I wanted to be than the standard pick-up artist fare, which seems to me to be generally manipulative, deceitful, and unpleasant.
Please don't think I'm accusing you guys of that. It's not my intent. I just struggle to know what else exactly to do. I'm not confident or smooth, and I don't have the first idea how to be flirty. Approaching at all makes me so nervous I feel like my legs are going to buckle. I guess just being blunt and straightforward felt like it was something I could handle and feel at peace with.
How would you guys recommend I approach things differently then? I want to be honest and open and kind, and If you guys have suggestions to make that work I'd love to hear them.
Man, I can totally relate. I recently just started approaching myself and it is fucking terrifying. My advice to you is to stop worrying about being confident or smooth at the stage that you're at. I did some approaches today and I stuttered like an awkward idiot during all of them.

You are going to suck at this at first, everybody does. Andy, GLL, etc all sucked at first too. Focus on just getting over your AA and building the habit, and then you can focus on the substance of the conversation and learning how to be smooth.

I also think it's a lot less stressful approaching in public places where you know they won't see you again.

I don't think direct approaches are necessarily a bad idea, I just think it's better to do direct approaches in environments where they almost certainly won't see you again.

Also, consider checking this out, I basically did this today, it might help you:
https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/p ... s-guy-game
check out my blog: https://squilzpursuit.wordpress.com/

- Do 1000 approaches by end of 2024 (~350/1000)
- Get laid from daygame
- Learn game and stop being a social autist
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pancakemouse
Posts: 1769 | Thanks: 1053
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:14 pm
Goal: Master cold approach
Age: 33

Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:27 am

Hawkins wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:13 am
First off, Thanks to you guys for replying. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to reach out and share their thoughts. It means a lot.
I'll say this: I have 4000 daygame approaches under my belt and even I don't really approach girls at the gym, and when I do, it's definitely not directly. It's probably the place you're going to get the worst reactions with a direct approach.

What I recommend instead is testing her interest level by making small talk or using a situational opener.
Yeah, girls tend to be pretty wary about being approached at the gym. I think in general, it's best to avoid direct approaches in environments where they are likely to see you again. Direct approaches set a sexual frame immediately and thus you'll turn off the girl if she isn't immediately interested in you.
Thanks for sharing your feedback @Squilliam and @pancakemouse . I'll admit I am somewhat surprised to receive it though. My impression from the site generally, as well as Andy's podcast and article content was that direct approach was favored and even better. I gravitated towards this community because the emphasis on complete honesty and openness seemed much more in line with who I wanted to be than the standard pick-up artist fare, which seems to me to be generally manipulative, deceitful, and unpleasant.

Please don't think I'm accusing you guys of that. It's not my intent. I just struggle to know what else exactly to do. I'm not confident or smooth, and I don't have the first idea how to be flirty. Approaching at all makes me so nervous I feel like my legs are going to buckle. I guess just being blunt and straightforward felt like it was something I could handle and feel at peace with.

How would you guys recommend I approach things differently then? I want to be honest and open and kind, and If you guys have suggestions to make that work I'd love to hear them.
A direct approach is great in the majority of circumstances. As with all advice, though, there are exceptions. The gym is a big one. A crowded bus or subway car is another. A social circle setting is another. Anywhere where a girl may feel trapped and feel the social consequences of rejecting you is one where you'll want to avoid a direct approach.

The game is played in subtlety.

An indirect approach does not mean forgoing any policies of openness and honesty. Once you gauge a girl's receptivity, there is nothing stopping you from telling her mid-interaction how beautiful you find her firmly developed glutes. But initially, you want to play to win, and that means eaaaaaaasing into a potential conversation.

I just Googled this article, and I agree with most of it. The sample conversations are a bit cringe, but the meat of it is correct: https://www.girlschase.com/content/gym- ... -girls-gym
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Crisis_Overcomer
Posts: 1017 | Thanks: 720
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:25 pm
Goal: Earn $5,000/month
Age: 33
Motto: Motion beats meditation

Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:16 am

Hawkins wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:13 am
I gravitated towards this community because the emphasis on complete honesty and openness seemed much more in line with who I wanted to be than the standard pick-up artist fare, which seems to me to be generally manipulative, deceitful, and unpleasant.
This is the emphasis but there are levels to this shit mate.

When I approach a girl, I can say:

1) "Hey, I thought you were cute and wanted to say hi"

2) "Hey, I wanna facefuck you and cum all over your face"

Both are honest and open. The former will get me a favorable/neutral response. The latter will lock me in jail faster than Andrew Tate can say "pizza."

Given that you seem to struggle with what to do, here are a few rules of thumb:

1) Be as honest and open as you want in safe scenarios. A great example is girls on apps.
2) Ask for feedback on scenarios you are unsure about. The gym one is a good example. Social scenarios are another etc.
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:24 am

Thanks so much all of you for your feedback. I plan to try it out and report back to you as soon as possible

DAY 5:

Today was not my best day. I'm really struggling with my workload in school and it's cracking my mental health badly. I didn't get near as much work done as I should have, and I didn't go to the gym, like I should have. Nonetheless, I'll look on the upside

Today I ran for 30 minutes.
Today I hit my calorie goals.

It's not much, but I'm allowed to suck. I won't quit and I'll keep trying.
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Manly Cockfellow
Posts: 449 | Thanks: 358
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:14 pm
Goal: Become the men I fear
Age: 37
Motto: Mk no smll plans; thy hv no pwr to stir mens blood

Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:31 pm

Hawkins wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:13 am
Thank you @Manly Cockfellow for your response as well. I appreciate the fact that anyone cares. Honestly though, I'm unsure what to take away from your comments though. I understand that not all women will be receptive, and some will even be aggressive about how unreceptive they are, but I have no desire to bully anyone into anything. Hell, I don't even want to CONVINCE anyone to do anything. I'm actually not even sure if that's possible. I'd much rather find someone who just WANTED to be with me. I don't want to play games, I don't want to put up some front, and I don't want to have to show off or perform for a girl. If I'm misunderstanding your comments or am otherwise making some error, I'd appreciate your feedback
Sorry about the confusion, mate!

I knew it would be easy to misinterpret my comment as me suggesting you be a bully to women, but I was in a rush when I wrote it and didn't have time to elaborate.

The takeaway for me from the frog example
(and from Yohami's notes, and from @MakingAComeback's friend Joy that he met during his recent Bristol trip, and from the link below)
is that women need to see you're mentally strong before they sleep with you, so just like the frogs at first they will bully you with weird/rude/mean rejections to see how you handle it.

If it doesn't faze you, you're in.

If it does, you're out.



This is why @MakingAComeback will eventually count the entire world as his harem.

The guy is molding himself into a complete master of enduring every test the world can throw at him and continuing on unfazed.

Once he realizes how attractive his unshakeable frame is to women and he no longer lets their reactions faze him
(like his friend Joy in Bristol, and like the Robert Downey Jr example from the link above)
it's game over.


*Edited to add that the more attractive you are the less bullying you will need to endure before she will sleep with you
(or in Yohami's model, the easier the puzzle will be),
but even the most attractive man will still have to endure some bullying
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:18 am

Day 6:

Yes. i missed yesterday. I shouldn't have but i did. But that's no reason to let myself miss today. I'm allowed to suck. And I'm also allowed to keep trying.

Today I went for a run. 30 minutes
Today I did a back workout. I lifted more this week than last week
Today I met my calorie goals
Today I did not look at porn.

I've also scheduled a second job interview, this time with a government agency. I'm looking forward to that.

I'm trying to digest what @Manly Cockfellow said about bullying coming from girls. I won't lie, it's deeply disheartening. I don't want to bully them, and I don't want them to bully me. I want to be on the same team. I am trying to frame the advice in my mind in a way that feels positive, honest, uplifting, and true. Perhaps it's more a conflict of framing and of tone than a true conflict with the advice that's causing me difficulty. I find it generally unpleasant to think in terms of being a "warlord" or making girls "crumble" and it doesn't sound fun, satisfying, or sexy to me to engage in some sort of mental and emotional battle with a woman or to conquer her.

I want it to be...maybe a dance is the right word. I don't want to fight girls. I want to dance. And that involves me learning to lead with confidence, poise, and skill. I can accept that. But I'd rather my interactions with women felt like a dance than posturing and combat. Like I said. This may be more of a gripe with the tone of the message than the actual content. I want to stay humble and learn from people who know better than me. God knows I have a lot to learn. But viewing things that way isn't going down easy. I'll keep thinking about it.
kratjeuh
Posts: 740 | Thanks: 341
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:18 pm
Goal: ...lskd
Age: 94

Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:36 am

Hawkins wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:18 am
I want it to be...maybe a dance is the right word. I don't want to fight girls. I want to dance. And that involves me learning to lead with confidence, poise, and skill. I can accept that. But I'd rather my interactions with women felt like a dance than posturing and combat. Like I said. This may be more of a gripe with the tone of the message than the actual content. I want to stay humble and learn from people who know better than me. God knows I have a lot to learn. But viewing things that way isn't
I think you have a beautiful way of describing this. Very proud of you that you can be this loving and positive despite the harsh reality you’ve been facing.

It’s about balance. @Manly Cockfellow s post is incredible and I’d say the biggest takeaway is “I am good enough” —> hot guy behavior.
I don’t necessarily agree with the view that you can get everyone if you stay persistent. Surely it’s true that we would fuck a 4 if she’s buttnaked next to us in bed. Would we want someone we aren’t really attracted to for any type of other relationship (fuckbuddy,fwb,ltr) despite her adjusting her behavior, probably not right?

Confidence is a huge attractiveness leverage, not shying out for a little resilience is also very attractive.
In general, hot guys have always been treated well and got what they wanted, that’s why this behavior is expected from them.
Average to ugly don’t experience this positivity so they are expected to act very shy and humble.
If you can act like a hot guy, surely you must’ve been treated well right?

That being said, work on confidence alongside other part of self improvement that you’ll find plenty of on this site.

Quote from 1stman: If you’re a 7 across the board with two to three 9 or 10/10 traits, you’re basically unstoppable.
Confidence would be a great candidate to train to become your 10/10 trait
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Manly Cockfellow
Posts: 449 | Thanks: 358
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:14 pm
Goal: Become the men I fear
Age: 37
Motto: Mk no smll plans; thy hv no pwr to stir mens blood

Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:36 pm

Hawkins wrote:
Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:18 am
I'm trying to digest what @Manly Cockfellow said about bullying coming from girls. I won't lie, it's deeply disheartening. I don't want to bully them, and I don't want them to bully me. I want to be on the same team. I am trying to frame the advice in my mind in a way that feels positive, honest, uplifting, and true. Perhaps it's more a conflict of framing and of tone than a true conflict with the advice that's causing me difficulty. I find it generally unpleasant to think in terms of being a "warlord" or making girls "crumble" and it doesn't sound fun, satisfying, or sexy to me to engage in some sort of mental and emotional battle with a woman or to conquer her.

I want it to be...maybe a dance is the right word. I don't want to fight girls. I want to dance. And that involves me learning to lead with confidence, poise, and skill. I can accept that.
I actually love this framing and think it's an even better lens than anything I wrote.

Now think about how you need to act when you ask a girl to dance.

All the same rules apply, don't they?

You need to lead by asking, and by guiding her through the steps with confidence, poise and skill like you said.

Dating/romance/sex being a dance you are leading is a beautiful way to put it.


I'll leave you with a story:
When Tim Ferris first got interested in learning to dance, he found this beautiful Latina woman who was an incredible dancer and instructor, so he took one of her introduction to dance classes

When it was his turn to dance with her he could see she was a little bit excited because he's a good looking guy and was really muscular at the time, but when he put his arms around her to start the dance he held her very timidly and she laughed and told the class "this guy has all these muscles, but he holds me like a Frenchman!"

Well he never made that mistake again, and next time they danced together he picked her up and squeezed her nice and tight, which made her light up with excitement and pleasure

They went on to win a world championship title together as dance partners

This is all I meant to point out with my focus on bullying: she teased him about holding her too softly, but rather than run away he kept at it and squeezed her tightly like she wanted next time they danced
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:05 am

Day 7:

First off, My thanks as always to those of you who have reached out with thoughts and feedback. It is deeply appreciated. I am feeling more comfortable with the advice given. I think the advice to focus on confidence, not get immediately thrown for a loop by the first irregularity in an interaction, and remain grounded is something I can really work on. I particularly liked the advice to "Train Confidence" from @kratjeuh. I like that way of putting it. I can develop routines to train eating, to train muscles, and even to train the skills im developing at school. I need a routine to train confidence. Any advice for activities to consider would be much appreciated.

Beyond that, I'm in a very hard very busy time for me, and I don't mind telling you guys that the next week scares the shit out of me. I have a massive deadline for a very large research paper approaching and I have a TON on my plate right now. In the past, when I have approached similar deadlines, I have not handled it well. I've struggled to be productive, my diet becomes shit, my exercise routines get neglected, I don't sleep well, and my mental health goes in the crapper. I'm reaching out for any strategies, mental exercise, ways to view the upcoming week, and other advice the community has. I want to rise to the challenge and succeed, but I'm scared it's going to crush me.

Today I met my calorie goals.
Today I prepped for a huge 3 hour presentation I have tomorrow for school.

Wish me luck boys.
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NightRoller
Posts: 271 | Thanks: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:06 pm
Name: Graham
Goal: Get Career Job, Move
Age: 23
Motto: Win and help win
Location: Bumfuck Rural US
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Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:26 am

Keep it up Dr. Hawkins

(I don't know if you're actually a Dr in anything, just seems like it fits your name... I bet you'd look good in glasses besides)

That thing about girls testing you, I along with the others will attest, is true--girls want to see if you're positive/nonreactive (a confident guy) or react in a big negative way (a guy who looks good but doesn't have any substance to back it up). It's a test of quality--like using a hammer to tell Gold from Pyrite--and it's written into female nature, because they instinctively want someone who can handle the troubles of life without panicking.
Goals: See this post
Skill-based 365 project
Laycount: 28 --- In 2023: 12 (as of May 03'23)
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Manly Cockfellow
Posts: 449 | Thanks: 358
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:14 pm
Goal: Become the men I fear
Age: 37
Motto: Mk no smll plans; thy hv no pwr to stir mens blood

Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:54 pm

Hawkins wrote:
Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:05 am
I'm reaching out for any strategies, mental exercise, ways to view the upcoming week, and other advice the community has. I want to rise to the challenge and succeed, but I'm scared it's going to crush me.
Ten minutes of meditation right after I wake up, right before I go to bed, and anytime I feel overwhelmed does wonders for me.

If you want to know more @colgate made a great meditation post a few weeks ago which I highly recommend:
viewtopic.php?p=49120#p49120
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:18 am

Day 8:

Today I gave my 3 hour presentation for law school.
Today I spent time hanging out with a friend to watch the Super Bowl. It seems like the friendship is really solidifying with this guy and It's really nice to have a buddy to hang out with. He's cool and we have good conversations and share plenty of interests. I've always been bad at making and keeping friends, so it's nice that this seems to be working out.

I'll try meditating for sure. 10 minutes is easy to find and might really help me. Anything to keep a solid mental state would be well worth the time this week.
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:43 am

Day 9:

I got out for a run today. Otherwise, not a great day. I'm allowed to suck. I'll try again tomorrow.
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Manly Cockfellow
Posts: 449 | Thanks: 358
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:14 pm
Goal: Become the men I fear
Age: 37
Motto: Mk no smll plans; thy hv no pwr to stir mens blood

Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:08 am

Hey @Hawkins

How are you?

Hope you're well
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Hawkins
Posts: 38 | Thanks: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:56 pm
Goal: Relationship
Age: 27
Motto: Show a little faith, there's magic in the night

Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:38 pm

Manly Cockfellow wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:08 am
Hey @Hawkins

How are you?

Hope you're well
Hey Man. I know i've been MIA. Life's been very up and down. I've been very discouraged with self-improvement goals lately and I find it makes me too ashamed to even bother checking these forums. Being surrounded by people who are working hard and achieving throws a long shadow over my own laziness and stagnation i guess. Returning to find that you'd checked in on my log was very unexpected and kind of you. Much appreciated. I still want to move forward though. I'll try to find a way. I don't even know where to start sometimes though. I'll figure something out. Thanks again.
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