Jamgoth's New Progress log - actually striking up the balls to talk to women

[Jamgoth]

Alright I'll take a look at this when I get the chance

So I tried growing out my beard and it's really patchy, and since goatees arent in style I think I'm just going to go for a clean shaven look

use minoxidil for facial hair

I did get some beard serum that's supposed to help.

[september]

if the beard serum doesn't have minoxidil it's not gonna help.

look at the /r/minoxbeards subreddit. its an actual drug with an actual mechanism of action and actual studies showing it works. plus I used it and it obviously worked.

"beard serum" could be fucking anything

[Jamgoth]

I don't know either why you seem to think you need to wait to do this or build up to it gradually. You can be aggressive before you've even spoken to the girl. Your whole interaction should be aggressive. From the beginning to end.

Because my attempts to "be aggressive" have only ended with everyone getting pissed off at me

[Jamgoth]

if the beard serum doesn't have minoxidil it's not gonna help.

look at the /r/minoxbeards subreddit. its an actual drug with an actual mechanism of action and actual studies showing it works. plus I used it and it obviously worked.

"beard serum" could be fucking anything

I'll look at the ingredient list when I get home, but as advertised it was supposed to help a patchy beard become fuller

[Jamgoth]

I mean I'm reading the thread and trying to understand this. But I can't say I really do.

We need to start having posted approach videos or audio on here. Would make everything so much fucking easier.

How much sexual experience do you have thus far? How many girls have you fucked or relationships etc. Like what level of experience are we talking here?

Cause if it's very low I'd imagine there are some fundamental mistakes you are making here that in person I could so easily start to point out to or explain to you but it's so easy to get lost in translation on here.

I'm assuming you are in general just coming across a bit strange or off to people or as socially not integrating and I had this same issue for a long time. Which you already seem to be aware of.

Like I said it's just difficult without seeing you and watching in real life.

I lost my virginity earlier this year, that's how fucking socially inept I am

[Jamgoth]

I'd have to actually see what you mean when you say "being aggressive".

Trying to kiss a girl within 30 minutes of meeting her on one girl. Using the "Damn, that's unfortunate, we could have made a cute couple" within a short timeframe of knowing a girl in front of her friends. Use the "aww, you're adorable when you're upset" line way too soon. Generally being told my behavior makes people in my school uncomfortable.

On all four of these instances, I didn't just get told no, I actively lost friends over this.

[september]

I think you mentioned previously wanting to visit the NYC guys.

This shouldn't be just an item on your todo list, it should be the absolute top item. Get it done as soon as possible.

Ideally you get coaching from Dante. But really even the regular NYC daygamer crew would probably be able to point out whatever vibe issues you have.

People on the forums are way too reluctant to meet other people and get feedback, when this is an order of magnitude faster way to grow than trying to debug everything indirectly through field reports and texting. Really, if you take a step back, the idea of trying to decipher behavioural issues by some means other than actually hanging out with the guy, or at the least listening to their date audios, is fucking insane.

By the way yeah 99% chance it's a vibe issue. You're trying to come off as having a way different vibe and frame than you actually do. Hence you say these lines and everyone just massively shit tests you because it's totally incongruent.

Easy for a jakeD to be like "just be aggressive" but it's like, yeah, if you're going full throttle at it you're going to get shit tested super hardcore until you're congruent, and if the shit testing gets unbearable you might never get there. Maybe baby step it instead. Spend more time around the girl, work on status instead, and take the escalation slower, and like I've suggested before, focus on body language way more than verbals - it's much harder for people to shit test you for your body language, and it's much more subtle.

Some empathy:

2020, a year before I started my daygame/fixing myself journey. I had a group project, 4 people, in my computer science class. Somehow, the one girl in it was actually hot. And did mildly flirty stuff like compliment my face. But she also had a boyfriend.

At some point all 4 of us are walking somewhere, and I don't remember what exactly I said to her. Some flirty, sexual-innuendo you-and-I thing while looking her in the eyes with a smirk.

wow turns out I'm kind of a natural at this

Anyway she then sucked my dick.

Nah, she stopped and told the other 2 guys in the group "guys did you hear what X just said? [my line verbatim] while looking me in the eyes". And then nervously chuckled.

[Jamgoth]

If you keep pushing and you have social intelligence / awareness, you'll eventually figure it out on your own if you keep pushing. But people are here to help as well. And shorten that process for you hopefully.

Pancake mouse said he'd help me once he got over covid and I had a free weekend to drive to NYC

I did do recordings and got feedback from another forum. The advice was "you do some things well considering your experience level. Namely teasing and not coming off as needy. But you struggle to make it man to woman, and your vocal inflection is very flat"

I've tried getting more recordings but most approaches are over so quickly they aren't worth getting feedback on. Like I said, I have bad approach anxiety for daygame

[Jamgoth]

People on the forums are way too reluctant to meet other people and get feedback,

I wanted to do this, meet some of you live, over the summer in DC when I had more time but no one here seems to be in DC. I met one guy who seems to be good at this who said he'd form a group to help beginners practice nightgame. I went with him once but got lost pretty quickly and he didn't seem interested in meeting any people in the group again (it wasn't just me, that group disbanded after one session). Super flaky guy *shrug*

By the way yeah 99% chance it's a vibe issue. You're trying to come off as having a way different vibe and frame than you actually do. Hence you say these lines and everyone just massively shit tests you because it's totally incongruent.

I had a friend who started college a virgin but then by his sophomore year he had a 20+bodycount, and would show me the texts he got from tinder so I believe it. His advice to me was to fake it until I made it. So, that's what I've been trying to do. Can you elaborate on vibe and frame and congruency. I get that my story is that I'm a low value guy who struggles to get ANY girl into me so for a large part of my life I didn't even try and I would get bullied by girls behind my back even though I was nothing but polite with them and wasn't even trying to sleep with any of them and I'm too fucking stupid to pick up on it. But yeah I can't exactly tell a woman that when I first meet them, and I'm not going to.

I am trying to work on status. I figure since I'm at college I'm on equal footing. Also spent more effort getting to know people, and also improving my clothing and getting fit. But other than that I don't know what to do to improve this. I had an idea for a business that I want to start getting a headstart on that I think would pay off massively if successful in terms of not only status but also meeting women in general.

[Jamgoth]

You need to become the guy in the photos. Not just look like him. Some edgy alt fuck boy.

Yeah it's hard to change your look. On the advice of some people here I've toned down the edge slightly. I still have a punk rock look but it doesn't look over the top like in my pfp

[Jamgoth]

Is there anyone in NYC who can help coach me on the weekends? I'm not picking up on this on my own.

[Holden]

I disagree with Jake here. Guy who lost his virginity earlier this year at age 29 shouldn't try to act "aggressive," not in this social climate, and not in a socially-heavy environment like college.

Just accept that the later you start this stuff the slower you learn because you have to unfuck your shit. Take it easy and learn some basic social skills.

I'd go so far as to say that you should google "cocky & funny" or pirate Double Your Dating, copy some lines, memorize them, and use them now and again with a girl. That's literally what I did 15 years ago, and for the first time in my life, I purposefully made a girl laugh, and that's when I realized "oh shit, I can learn this shit."

The aggression can come later.

Get involved with as many groups as you can. Anything - martial arts, frats, rock climbing. It's the one huge regret I have from college, I thought I was too cool to join these groups and my ego enjoyed being a loner - BIG mistake.

[Jamgoth]

I disagree with Jake here. Guy who lost his virginity earlier this year at age 29 shouldn't try to act "aggressive," not in this social climate, and not in a socially-heavy environment like college.

Yeah, considering I just had a title 9 complaint called on me, I don't think "more aggressive" is a good strategy

[natedawg]

Is there anyone in NYC who can help coach me on the weekends? I'm not picking up on this on my own.

You reach out to @pancakemouse or @september yet?

[Jamgoth]

Is there anyone in NYC who can help coach me on the weekends? I'm not picking up on this on my own.

You reach out to @pancakemouse or @september yet?

PancakeMouse is sick, I'll talk to september