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Holden
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Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:46 pm

september wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:58 pm
there is a difference between 7s and 9s in game
Haven't read the book myself but for me personally I've noticed in the last few years as I'm doing this IG-preselection stuff and I dialled in my body, voice, vibe, style etc. (basically improved my SMV) I've noticed that girls in the 6-7.5 range tend to think I'm unavailable/unattainable or they (kinda correctly) assume I only want them around for an ONS.

After 10+ years of doing the cocky & funny, teasing, negging, ballbusting fuckboy thing I notice I have to turn down that part of my personality more and more because as my SMV improves I just scare girls off.

Basically the opposite of the "nice guy problem" where guys are afraid to polarize or tease.

It's weird how almost no one talks about this. I've lost girls because they thought I wasn't "into them", because I was "too arrogant", because "you're just going to dump me," or they reject my advances and say stuff like "I'm sure you have 10 other girls waiting in line anyway."

I have to purposefully do things that, according to old school PUA stuff, you shouldn't ever do. Give them compliments, etc.

In the old Mystery Method there's an Attraction phase and a Comfort phase. But when your SMV is high enough, Attraction is just assumed and you only need very little "attraction generating behaviors" (such as teases, negs, etc.)

But most PUA material is geared towards that Attraction phase. So it fucked with my mind a little bit and for a long time.

Unless a girl is not into my look or otherwise sexually unavailable, Attraction is just assumed. And if you tease & neg on top of that, you just scare them away.

HOWEVER

That only applies to girls in the 6-7.5 range. With girls hotter than that, all that same shit still works. So I'd say that the game is very different as the optimal approach is contingent on the girl's attractiveness relative to your own.
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kratjeuh
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Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:59 pm

september wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:58 pm
It's important to keep this in mind so we keep self improving even once we've started succeeding with our usual archetype, because hotter girls do have better personalities as you get more attractive
That girl shown here is gorgeous. If we rate her a 7, then we are all 5s and below.

I don’t link personality towards attractiveness. There are plenty of beautiful girls who won’t turn on bitch mode upon waking up, as much as their are below average girls who think they are queens.
Hotter girls are harder to impress is true though.

Being more attractive gets you better treatment from everyone, not just the hottest girls. This is why it’s so important to reach your genetical limit which will be different from everyone.
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MILFandCookies
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Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:54 pm

Sisyphus wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:32 pm
I will focus on money. Not because I care about being a millionaire. But I care about financial freedom. Working a 9-5 is counterproductive for learning this. I want to have time and money to party like an animal and pay for the best coaches
A few others slammed you for this, saying it's not realistic.

And I agree - to an extent. Business takes years to learn and apply effectively. You will lose time and money up front.

That said, it's not at all a pipe dream, it's 100% reality and possible to have "time and money to party like an animal and pay for the best coaches" with your business.

You just have to put in the time, fail a fuckton, and learn each time, and keep learning.

I make low 6 figures from my business (growing it to mid-6-figures soon) while working 15-25 hrs/week. I have a lot of free time.

That said, I failed at business for 8 years, took out a few business loans, was homeless (sleeping in my car, on friend's couches etc.) for 2 years, actually sleeping on the street for 3 nights... Lost the support of my family for a few years...

You don't necessarily have to sacrifice as much as I did to get where I am (which isn't really that impressive compared to a lot of entrepreneurs I know) but you do, and will have to sacrifice time and freedom for a few years at least.

So yes, persue business if you want to get rich and have a ton of free time, but understand it's a long-term goal. A marathon. And it'll likely take up all your focus for a while, meaning you won't have much mental energy to focus on girls.

My advice, which I believe Andy gives as well and others in the community, is to solve one, then the other. Business or girls 1st, then the other 2nd.
I've helped > 100 guys get laid on dating apps.
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Sisyphus
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Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:26 pm

I don't think it's stupid to rate girls attractiveness, even though I think subjectivity and all that exists.

Bottom line is: do we really want to bang ANY girl? Anything goes?

or

Do we want a SPECIFIC type of girl? A girl with certain physical attributes, personality traits, tribes/subcultures, kinks, etc.

Then, how do we get there? Why aren't we having that right now? What do I need to do to get those girls to find me attractive?

And, as pointed out above, how do I can have relationship (open or monogamous) with them and not just a one night stand?

What's important about 9s and 10s is getting real with our results and stop bullshitting ourselves.. It's like, if you start a business, you need to quantify how much money you're making, if you go to they gym, you need to measure your bodyfat, your chest and waist, etc. I understand that women are people and it's not the same, but at the end of the day we respond emotionally to "superficial" things.

And yes, I also think it's useful to compare with other people. It takes ourselves out of our self-delusion. I believe a lot of times we tend to overrate the beauty of the girls we bang not because beauty is subjective, but because we want to feel good about ourselves. Getting exposed to more examples and opinions IS helpful.

That's like step 0. Getting real with ourselves. With what we want and what we have. Perhaps you don't care at all about girls being skinny, with a super cute face, with big round ass and a fun outgoing personality. I personally don't care about girls being supertall or having big tits. We all have preferences. You can call the girls you want 9s and 10s, supermodels, girls that are into bdsm, conservative girls, whatever. Rating girls is just a way to get more specific in what you want. The important thing is there's a target audience that you want to reach and you need to understand what they want, what to offer.

Game Solved, and pretty much any good game source I've read, tells you that you have to CHANGE YOUR IDENTITY if you want different results. Like you need to do a complete overhaul of your personality. 'Being yourself' doesn't cut it (you aren't actually who you think you are anyway, and 'yourself' is just a product of your social conditioning and your real self is hidden behind that act).

You need to watch what the guys that get those "9s and 10s" are doing a model them. What's their vibe, body language, how they dress, what slang do they use, what are their interests, where do they find these girls, what actions do they take? You can't just keep being who you are and run game on top. It's putting lipstick on a pig.

I've found that you tend to attract girls similar to you. Similar in vibe, in interests. If you're introverted you'll tend to attract introverted girls. Etc. So rating girls, whatever you subjective scale is, points you in the direction where you want to go. Whatever your 10 is, then you'll have to be a 10 to her.
Number 1 goal: Earn $1000/month (300000 ARS)
Number 2: Fuck 10 girls from cold approach (5/10)

Number 3: get to 72kg at 10% bodyfat.
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caico11
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:21 am

Also for getting 9s and 10s on regular you need to be in a top social circle group. They are top tier for one reason and aren't easy to do volume with. Even chris said the hottest girls he banged wasn't all from ca but parties and social gatherings. If you only want to get 9s and 10s from ca you would need to wait a long time.Or be rich enough to go to "rich ppl" places. Think about it. This girls already have top guys from their social circle why would they go out with you without any social proof? Of course, once in a while you can find a girl like this that is traveling and happy to experiment with strangers. What I think is ideal though is want a minimum. If the minimum for you is a 7 and you are a 8 in terms of smv you can bang those girls on average. The thing about game is that only works if you are good looking enough for this bitches and can hold your ground on a convo. I never could do that reading books though
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AskTheDom
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am

A simple Pareto distribution understanding would make us point out that 9 and 10's are simply rare.

They don't hang around the mall in Tallahassee, and market buyers will always match market sellers.

So you need to rise to the right part of the male SMV distribution
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Wnyhg
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:43 pm

Do you have a girlfriend? I think I would recommend that first.

These numbers are irrelevant and almost a form of mental masturbation. Turn these naked woman upside down and they all look the same. She could be a 5 in the morning, an 8.5 in the afternoon and a 9 when going for dinner.

Besides a girlfriend, I’d suggest finding a group or a couple of naturals and a mentor.

I would recommend mushrooms to you as well. It feels that the use of mushrooms has really brought out some of my masculinity. It may addres some of the issues I read on
Last edited by Wnyhg on Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AskTheDom
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:43 pm

Crisis_Overcomer wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:00 pm
Yes but just a bj
Savage 🐯
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Sisyphus
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:10 pm

Wnyhg wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:43 pm
Do you have a girlfriend? I think I would recommend that first.

These numbers are irrelevant and almost a form of mental masturbation. Turn these naked woman upside down and they all look the same. She could be a 5 in the morning, an 8.5 in the afternoon and a 9 when going for dinner.

Besides a girlfriend, I’d suggest finding a group or a couple of naturals. Copy someone.
Have a frame or build one. Then stick to it.

I no longer approach, I’m not using OLD, I had and dealt with a bunch of different naturals over the years and basically tagged along. I won a beauty contest in college and my professor called me a playboy. I’ve been charismatic bum my whole life,have had countless opportunities to bang married woman, colleagues, have had endless convos with woman like I was gay. That is when I decided between being a man whore or a married whore whose into his woman everywhere.

I would recommend mushrooms to you as well. It feels that the use of mushrooms has really brought out some of my masculinity. It may addres some of the issues I read on page 4.

Besides the social proof and SMV, just don’t think if it as approaching. Do it but don’t internalize it whatsoever. This goes back to having a frame with tonality and the rest. If you read a book act on it.
I have a girl I've seen and fucked a couple of times. I like her personality and find her hot. And she's 18, is super submissive and calls me daddy and wanted to rip my clothes apart on the first date. Hopefully she'll stick.

Perhaps making her a girlfriend and focusing on business would be the right move.
Last edited by Sisyphus on Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Number 1 goal: Earn $1000/month (300000 ARS)
Number 2: Fuck 10 girls from cold approach (5/10)

Number 3: get to 72kg at 10% bodyfat.
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Squilliam
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Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:44 pm

Vamos wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:20 am
Sure, your Walmart has to be a meeting place for international supermodels.
To be fair, I think a lot of people are quick to assume that model necessarily equates to 9 or 10. I don't agree at all. Models are hired to sell stuff and to appeal to women, not to men. Sometimes this overlaps with being a 9 or a 10, but I think that's the reason why many of us don't find that girl to be super attractive.

I also think that while we all see beauty the same way, what we are actually attracted to varies somewhat. I agree with everyone else, I see girls outside that I'd personally be more attracted to than her, despite the fact that she's objectively very beautiful.
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Sisyphus
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Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:41 am

Over the last few days I felt into back habits of insecurity and anxiety around being social.

I basically had a big paradigm shift where I realized I indeed had problems in my approach, my vibe, etc. At the same time, it's not like I was trying hard to be calibrated.

It's much easier to approach when you arent self conscious about the vibe you're projecting and blame it all on the other person.

So I started reading a lot about game, practiced recording myself and imitating actors (which I think helps a lot by the way).

At the same time, I got discouraged reading how @pancakemouse had 0 AA since forever, and that's something I fought hard to overcome and even now I struggle with.

I almost felt into victim mentality. But fuck it. I'm already seeing results so I should keep going. I'll bang my first 9 in no time.

I know that term triggers a lot of you, but I'm just saying: i'm gonna bang a seemingly unatainable girl.

I see all this talk about not pedestalizing hot women but I only trust guys that have been there and done that. Otherwise, I don't buy it, you'd probably get more anxious if you talk to a club fake blonde slut with high heels than if you talk to a 5. Unless you're pancake.

-------
Actually if I think about it, it's a brighter scenario if there's actually stuff to improve and those 10000 approaches if done correctly will build a permanent skill in you. Cold approach being a pure numbers game is kinda boring.

At the same time, every good game or sales mentor I've come across talks about volume being a very important aspect. I don't understand why there's so much backlash against spam approaching, as long as your intention is to remain in set and aren't using volume as a way to avoid tension.

Speaking of which, I'm incorporating lots of non verbal improvements and making intense eye contact on the fiest seconds of apprpach.

What I'm having a hard time with is improvising, verbally teasing, etc. My coversation is pretty normal, ask where shes from etc, but I'm compensating the "logical, rapport conversation" with more playful tonality/facial expression. When I ask a question I make it a point to do it in a non rapport seeking way, faking disinterest, etc.

I almost exclusively do daygame so sets are typically shorter unless you approach in a park or cafe.

Eventually these things will come with practice, like playing an instrument. Tagging with naturals/good players is important.

These are important qualities of a good interaction:
I'm coming strong, dominant/cocky, relaxed, calibrated, congruent, non verbally smooth (fluid movements, no brusque motions), human/real/natural, fun/playful, she's chasing me, I lead in every way, I touch her gradually, gradually make her invest via asking emotional and sexual questions, I'm being persistent and handling objections/going for the close, being able to relate to her/read social cues/signal that Im part of the incrowd

Another important thing: Have an instinct for instadating or instapulling

I also think it's important to have a clear goal in mind. Our brain adjusts to the goals that we program it with.

If you have the goal of approaching 100 girls a day, you'll ignore everything else. If your goal is to develop a rotation of 3 HOT fuckbuddies, you'll pay attention to the right information that creates that outcome.

Today approached 5 girls got 1 number

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------
The core skill is always DISCIPLINE and PAIN TOLERANCE and I'm naturally lacking in those
Last edited by Sisyphus on Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Number 1 goal: Earn $1000/month (300000 ARS)
Number 2: Fuck 10 girls from cold approach (5/10)

Number 3: get to 72kg at 10% bodyfat.
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pancakemouse
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Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:13 am

Sisyphus wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:41 am
At the same time, every good game or sales mentor I've come across talks about volume being a very important aspect. I don't understand why there's so much backslash against spam approaching, as long as your intention is to remain in set and are using volume as a way to avoid tension.
The backlash comes because guys don't understand what "spam approaching" actually means.

Spam approaching: approaching a set without calibrating first, with no thought to who the girl actually is, no care given to whoever might be watching, and robotically performing a routine.

What guys think spam approaching is: high volume approach.

They see "omg 40 sets a day" and flip out, ignoring the fact that it's totally possible to approach 40 sets in a calibrated manner.
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T0NY_M0NTANA
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Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:00 am

pancakemouse wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:13 am
Sisyphus wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:41 am
At the same time, every good game or sales mentor I've come across talks about volume being a very important aspect. I don't understand why there's so much backslash against spam approaching, as long as your intention is to remain in set and are using volume as a way to avoid tension.
The backlash comes because guys don't understand what "spam approaching" actually means.

Spam approaching: approaching a set without calibrating first, with no thought to who the girl actually is, no care given to whoever might be watching, and robotically performing a routine.

What guys think spam approaching is: high volume approach.

They see "omg 40 sets a day" and flip out, ignoring the fact that it's totally possible to approach 40 sets in a calibrated manner.
Tbh, as uncalibrated as spam approaching often comes across.. I actually think alot of guys could benefit going through a 'phase' of it to some degree, that's to collect referrence experience in order to then LEARN to be calibrated.

Also if you go into a set without giving a shit what the girls doing, who she is, the observers etc. You'll build alot of resilience to harsher blowouts/rejections and to the spotlight effect which your future self will benefit greatly from.

As far as doing 40 per day though, I'm not there and I still find daygame very emotionally draining even though this aspect has improved alot with time. I can manage about 10 in a few hours on a good day, then my brain just feels cooked lol
Last edited by T0NY_M0NTANA on Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sisyphus
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Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:06 am

T0NY_M0NTANA wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:00 am
pancakemouse wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:13 am


The backlash comes because guys don't understand what "spam approaching" actually means.

Spam approaching: approaching a set without calibrating first, with no thought to who the girl actually is, no care given to whoever might be watching, and robotically performing a routine.

What guys think spam approaching is: high volume approach.

They see "omg 40 sets a day" and flip out, ignoring the fact that it's totally possible to approach 40 sets in a calibrated manner.
Tbh, as uncalibrated as spam approaching often comes across.. I actually think alot of guys could benefit going through a 'phase' of it to some degree, that's to collect referrence experience in order to then LEARN to be calibrated.

Also if you go into a set without giving a shit what the girls doing, who she is, the observers etc. You'll build alot of resilience to harsher blowouts/rejections and to the spotlight effect which your future self will benefit greatly from.
Yeah. A lot of coaches say "Be uncalibrated first then calibrate" and it's kinda true. I mean, at first you can't distinguish between legit empathy vs your mind inventing unrealistic scenarios so it's generally good to cross the line a little bit and see what happens.
Number 1 goal: Earn $1000/month (300000 ARS)
Number 2: Fuck 10 girls from cold approach (5/10)

Number 3: get to 72kg at 10% bodyfat.
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Wnyhg
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Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:42 pm

Situational openers have worked best for me.
My logistics are beyond terrible and I run the risk of getting a bad rep professionally. ive stopped.

I would love to meet John Adams from Pancakes log, but everything about me needs tuning. I think it’ll take years but if I can build up confidence, I’ll be able to fake it if I need to.

Your not getting rejected, your screening for compatibility.

If you don’t get a girlfriend, pull as many 5s or 6s as you can. You eventually build a path in your mind or a process, like driving a car or riding a bike. You don’t think about it eventually and that’s where the 9s and 10s will come and go.

It’s funny though, I remember about a guy sitting down at a party next to a girl, talks to said girl and 5 minutes later they’re fucking behind a sofa. We shouldn’t make it more complicated than it is. Some of this stuff gets in the way.

I get the feeling that the married ones that I’ve spoken with can trust you with secrets, or develops some sort of inferiority complex right away, the chances are better. Most are taken(rings) and I get IOIs, but something is off. It’s probably me but it’s also that they don’t want to be seen with me. ?Status or bias. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.

I’ve bailed all of my convos and I don’t consider them approaches, more like train wrecks. My swag is off, I’m not upbeat and higher fun, my body language is going to be off for awhile

I believe NLP would assist us in the mall or shops. I would ask you to use Ross Jeffries method or use his method to get the woman into an emotional state. I’ve been unknowingly using it when girls gaslight me or I flip their obnoxiousness on them.

This is probably an excuse, and it’ll affect my convos unless I go direct like John Adams does on Pancakes log. I would love to get a picture of him and see his looks. In any case, calibration is relative, intent is everything. Body language, eye contact, touching, emotions. escalate.
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