colgate - assume your childhood woes were your fault too

[Zug]

IMO, its not about 'needing' more. If you frame it that way, obviously it rings hollow, hence why you don't care.

There's a couple of negative reasons that are real:
1. You drove yourself out of complacency and achieved these things because of the NEED. Not because you're just a disciplined person.
2. You didn't actually achieve a type of existence that self-perpetuates yet. You don't have the discipline yet to maintain your gains without an outside carrot. At least not indefinitely. That's why you feel like something is wrong. You know that if you aren't oriented properly you're going to sink back to the level of your core, which isn't sufficient.

I see a few paths out:
1. You are some guy who just lives for challenges. You don't like being at the top of a mountain, you just like climbing mountains. - I wish I was this guy, and I'm getting closer, but I'm not this guy yet. Becoming this guy is a lifelong process.
2. You have some near immediate future goal that requires to be at a higher level. I want to be a father, and the only way to be a good one is to MODEL the correct behaviors. Which means I can't tell me kids what to do or how to be, I actually have to be that guy and they then absorb it from being around me and observing. - This one rings true to me, and I realize I have a lot further to go because of it. This lead me into the final one
3. You need to re-arrange your life from being goal-oriented to process-oriented. You don't do pickup or go to the gym to get girls anymore. You do it because its part of your routine to live your best life. You set up your list of daily/weekly habits you know you need to do in order to live a good life. Then you focus on knocking these out every single day, regardless of how you feel. You're trying to build the muscle that allows you to maintain your lifestyle forever, and allows you to achieve any goal you have in the future. You get off on knocking out your to-do list, not from making $xxx or a new conquest.

You also need to deep dive into your reasons for being. This is a lifelong philosophical pursuit. What is actually good, why is it good, how can I become more in accordance with what it is good. It's fine and dandy to focus on the painfully immediate needs (being a loser). However, once those are knocked out, you need to start digging into the nature of what made being a loser awful, and what makes not being one great. What are the principles and ideals that lead to those states of being? This is real work. You don't get answers to these questions 'just waiting around'.

Its 100% fine to not know where you are going or why, its 100% not fine to not look into finding out. The problem with 'giving yourself a break' or 'taking it easy for a while' is that it always leads to the same thing - mindless hedonism. Hedonism overindulged always leads to misery. You're going to overindulge over time for the sole reason you don't have sufficient reason not to. The reasons to indulge in pleasure seeking are obvious, the reasons to go the gym and work hard are less so. The only way to address it is seeking them out.

You need a damn strong reason to get up early to go the gym and say no to cake, drugs, and porn.

Imagine a future where you don't do this, and 5-7 years from now you end up exactly where you started in the first place, and not only that, you realize its entirely your fault.

Finally, I'd put forth another reason. What the fuck was the point of getting your life together and pulling yourself out of despair? Is the end goal just to just more optimally pursue hedonism? I didn't do all this shit just for me. I did it so I could spread this success outward to those around me. First to my immediate friends and family, and then to my local community and beyond.

Society is crumbling because all the people capable of fixing it are choosing not to. This site exists because Andy turned around and tried to show his path to other people. Sure, he had other personal goals too, but it would have been easier to not do this and just find some other job. I suspect he realized all the work he did was wasted if he wasn't able to share it with others like him.

[lacroix]

You're gonna start your new job soon so it makes sense that your social/pickup goals are kind of on hold. For a while pickup was your obsession, then enjoying and figuring stuff out about having your awesome gf. then you were super focused on experiencing that life while learning japanese. Now you're mentally preparing to dive into your new job which I know you mentioned you're excited about. Eventually you'll settle into the job and you'll probably want to pick something else to focus on, which may very well end up being social stuff again.
Now if you stagnate for years and years on end that's a problem. But if you're genuinely happy with where you are and about diving into the next phase of your life, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself and doing that. I think your energies will naturally shift as you conquer more and more things.
Or screw it go crazy with pickup and start banging cheerleaders again

[colgate]

thanks for the responses guys!

@Zug i was honestly hoping you would have a word on my post. underrated and I don't know why my OP has more thanks than your post lol

You do it because its part of your routine to live your best life.

this feels like my duty in life. i'm going to end up exactly what brought me to feel like a loser in the first place if i do my version of hedonism for a prolonged period of time again. and my version is just endlessly browsing the internet. not even porn or social media, just random websites and blogs.

my brain is honestly deluding me into feeling accomplished so i don't have to evolve. because evolving is scary and means you have to suck.

easier to embrace the suck when all you know is sucking. but what if you don't suck anymore? now you need to you have to get off your high horse and let it stampede all over your ego. and start sucking again. then maybe, just maybe, the equine gods will reward you with the enriching experiences you desire when you least expect it

honestly up until now i was playing not to lose. and now i have definitely Not Lost. i don't think i've ever wanted to chase being a winner. but maybe that's why the name of the site changed. winner within isn't the message i wanted to hear but perhaps needed to hear. because playing not to lose isn't the path to a fulfilling life, it's the path to the purgatory i put myself into. hey but at least it's not hell! pfft...

perhaps no longer should i be living for myself, but rather for discovering how i can provide value to people. i mean if i'm so much of a not-loser normie now, then i should be putting the yen where my mouth is right.

one thing is for certain. i fucking HATE!!!!!1!!111 that my default hobby and vice is endless internet browsing. adds no value to myself nor others, yet i succumb to it time and time again. only when i have a clear vision and purpose do i find myself free from its chains.

my default hobby will be TALKING TO HOT CHICKS!!! because that's what i want to do. when i am talking to hot chicks i feel maximally aligned with my values. my values are finding enriching life experiences, sharing them with the world, and showing the light on how others can too. the fact that it's painful now will only pay off a sweeter reward in the end. i have firsthand experience of that, anyone can read my log for proof.

speaking of talking to hot chicks...

i met up with a guy from the approach group @Toast is in. gonna call that the gaijin approach group.

dude felt like me from 2021 tbh. he was just pinballing the station for real. he got some contacts too. he was like "yeah i suck but how else am i supposed to get better" i reminisced on the approach sessions i had with @lacroix in austin back in november 2021. felt like i swapped places with him, as someone who now has Gotten The Sex a couple of times.

i myself did 10 approaches and got a little bit of a convo with a chick.

what was stopping me from doing more and sticking into sets was that "i forgot how to convo"

common tactics such as "treat her like your gf" and "monologue like a guy in her world" are easier said than done. would be great if i already had "the OK" to just act exactly how i want to, and have plenty of random and stimulating topics that'll open her up.

except i don't need her OK. and i already have topics, I'm just too scared to dive in so i get amnesia on the approach about who i even am.

advice from the gaijin approach group was that i need to go through a phase of finding out what these jappo chicks are about firsthand. of course i can watch trending YouTube videos and follow social media or whatever but the best way is to dig deep firsthand. incorrectly cold read, genuinely ask why she made the fashion choices she did, dig down into what she does in her free time.

i gotta be dora the explorer on these chicks. except the japanese version. i'm already brown enough to do it lol

TIME TO EVOLVE BITCHES!!!

[Thrice]

TIME TO EVOLVE BITCHES!!!

what a transformation, i remeber your first posts, they were actually videos. At that time i already knew you wouldn't disappear like most newbies. And the creepy approaches at the mall chasing girls hhahah

Happy for you brother!

[lacroix]

thanks for the responses guys!

@Zug i was honestly hoping you would have a word on my post. underrated and I don't know why my OP has more thanks than your post lol

You do it because its part of your routine to live your best life.

this feels like my duty in life. i'm going to end up exactly what brought me to feel like a loser in the first place if i do my version of hedonism for a prolonged period of time again. and my version is just endlessly browsing the internet. not even porn or social media, just random websites and blogs.

my brain is honestly deluding me into feeling accomplished so i don't have to evolve. because evolving is scary and means you have to suck.

easier to embrace the suck when all you know is sucking. but what if you don't suck anymore? now you need to you have to get off your high horse and let it stampede all over your ego. and start sucking again. then maybe, just maybe, the equine gods will reward you with the enriching experiences you desire when you least expect it

honestly up until now i was playing not to lose. and now i have definitely Not Lost. i don't think i've ever wanted to chase being a winner. but maybe that's why the name of the site changed. winner within isn't the message i wanted to hear but perhaps needed to hear. because playing not to lose isn't the path to a fulfilling life, it's the path to the purgatory i put myself into. hey but at least it's not hell! pfft...

perhaps no longer should i be living for myself, but rather for discovering how i can provide value to people. i mean if i'm so much of a not-loser normie now, then i should be putting the yen where my mouth is right.

one thing is for certain. i fucking HATE!!!!!1!!111 that my default hobby and vice is endless internet browsing. adds no value to myself nor others, yet i succumb to it time and time again. only when i have a clear vision and purpose do i find myself free from its chains.

my default hobby will be TALKING TO HOT CHICKS!!! because that's what i want to do. when i am talking to hot chicks i feel maximally aligned with my values. my values are finding enriching life experiences, sharing them with the world, and showing the light on how others can too. the fact that it's painful now will only pay off a sweeter reward in the end. i have firsthand experience of that, anyone can read my log for proof.

speaking of talking to hot chicks...

i met up with a guy from the approach group @Toast is in. gonna call that the gaijin approach group.

dude felt like me from 2021 tbh. he was just pinballing the station for real. he got some contacts too. he was like "yeah i suck but how else am i supposed to get better" i reminisced on the approach sessions i had with @lacroix in austin back in november 2021. felt like i swapped places with him, as someone who now has Gotten The Sex a couple of times.

i myself did 10 approaches and got a little bit of a convo with a chick.

what was stopping me from doing more and sticking into sets was that "i forgot how to convo"

common tactics such as "treat her like your gf" and "monologue like a guy in her world" are easier said than done. would be great if i already had "the OK" to just act exactly how i want to, and have plenty of random and stimulating topics that'll open her up.

except i don't need her OK. and i already have topics, I'm just too scared to dive in so i get amnesia on the approach about who i even am.

advice from the gaijin approach group was that i need to go through a phase of finding out what these jappo chicks are about firsthand. of course i can watch trending YouTube videos and follow social media or whatever but the best way is to dig deep firsthand. incorrectly cold read, genuinely ask why she made the fashion choices she did, dig down into what she does in her free time.

i gotta be dora the explorer on these chicks. except the japanese version. i'm already brown enough to do it lol

TIME TO EVOLVE BITCHES!!!

Yup. And now that you have had the experience of having an attractive gf, you have the (1) confidence and (2) experience with women to make progress and realizations you couldn't have back in 2021. Keep working hard but know that you are now in a much more prepared place than you were several years ago

[PinchePendejo]

Get after it. Knowing the life you’ve already built in Japan…there is no doubt you’ll become the man you want to be. It was a pleasure meeting up with you. Thanks for showing us the sights!

[colgate]

STOP BEING TOO SCARED TO LIVE YOUR DREAM LIFE! BITCH!

[colgate]

i feel like my ability to do anything that "i don't want to do" is completely shot

and getting random positive validation about my past accolades does not help me, if anything i get more complacent

i made my first approach of the year (last month) because @Manganiello pinned me about it. and i went to go approach 2 days ago because i didn't want to seem like the lame ass who turns down going out to game

positive vision unfortunately rarely drives me. i don't even know what the ideal version of myself looks like. even when i sit down to journal this, and i have several times, i can never actually believe it.

i noted down my anti-vision instead. what i don't want my life to be. and as @Zug said in his post here, it'll all be my doing. there's no "guys but i had a bad childhood and had negative stats" excuse to fall back on.

tbh i'm already over that "my past was lame" shit by now. i'm more about taking responsibility for the situation i've landed myself in.

why the fuck have i not slept with even one japanese girl despite being here for a year and a half? it's because i'm too satisfied and satiated by my current position to do anything. by that i mean i can just endlessly browse the internet all day and waste my time.

i'm directly harming myself, and everyone else, by not doing the things that my little monkey brain wants to weasel out of. that is all i will say

[colgate]

why do i care so much about sleeping with japanese girls? it's because in order to do that, i have to live up to how my frontal cortex imagines itself. i have to drop the NEET stay at home nerd lifestyle, i have to love to talk to people, i have to be in touch with what normal people are into (and not be some fucking edgelord coping by saying "what normies are into is so lame!"), i have to become masculine, i have to take control of my life

the banging japanese girls part for me is just a reflection that i am indeed living a life congruent to these ideals. i know (now from personal experience!) that when i am actually trying to get laid, i am becoming my best self. because banging chicks (especially if you can't get it in autosex mode) is what cuts through all the bullshit. you can't cope and you can't cop out.

which is why i am posting these rambles on my log out of desperation. because right now i'm coping and copping out

[lacroix]

why do i care so much about sleeping with japanese girls? it's because in order to do that, i have to live up to how my frontal cortex imagines itself. i have to drop the NEET stay at home nerd lifestyle, i have to love to talk to people, i have to be in touch with what normal people are into (and not be some fucking edgelord coping by saying "what normies are into is so lame!"), i have to become masculine, i have to take control of my life

the banging japanese girls part for me is just a reflection that i am indeed living a life congruent to these ideals. i know (now from personal experience!) that when i am actually trying to get laid, i am becoming my best self. because banging chicks (especially if you can't get it in autosex mode) is what cuts through all the bullshit. you can't cope and you can't cop out.

which is why i am posting these rambles on my log out of desperation. because right now i'm coping and copping out

YOURE A JAPANESE VIRGIN
TIME TO HUSTLE!

[Zug]

my brain is honestly deluding me into feeling accomplished so i don't have to evolve. because evolving is scary and means you have to suck.

You are accomplished. The real issue that no one talks about is the accomplishments don't mean anything other than in a short few minute window where theyre happening or bragging about it later. People are not unhappy because they haven't won, they're unhappy because they live like a loser. 80% of the value is in changing yourself and how you live. The other 20% is the meaningful relationships and experiences you can have as a result.

Keep in mind there is no middle ground. You're either sinking back toward how you were or continue evolving. Even trying to maintain doesn't really work. You need to be climbing a mountain, you just have more freedom in the mountains available to you now, as well as the option to climb bigger mountains.

Don't overlook the idea of your responsibility to others as a result of being more capable. Responsibility and social connection is a real effective way to keep you on the straight and narrow. It's hard to play video games and masturbate all day when you have to meet your gym partner at 7am and have a speech you have to give later that evening.

[colgate]

You are accomplished. The real issue that no one talks about is the accomplishments don't mean anything other than in a short few minute window where theyre happening or bragging about it later. People are not unhappy because they haven't won, they're unhappy because they live like a loser.

thanks for pointing out this key nuance. you're right, i have achieved my dream life from age 16. and also at the same time, last week i was living like a loser so of course i felt unhappy.

80% of the value is in changing yourself and how you live. The other 20% is the meaningful relationships and experiences you can have as a result.

yeah wow, like i think up until now since i was so "goal-oriented" i was totally ignoring the effects of my actual lifestyle and only tunnel visioned on what results i was getting. i really did think that my life satisfaction was a function of my results, which is why i felt such a schism recently.

i have been aware of how "process-oriented" people seem to have more fulfilling lives and wracked my brain at "ok how tf can i actually enjoy the process instead of hyperfocusing on what results i am getting".

but this "80% of the value is in changing yourself and how you live" statement completely inverts how i think about life. i should be focusing on HOW i live my life to BE in a STATE of life fulfillment, as opposed to "achieving a specific milestone to reach the peak of life fulfillment"

i will keep this in mind going forward, thank you for the insightful posts @Zug

[Zug]

i should be focusing on HOW i live my life to BE in a STATE of life fulfillment, as opposed to "achieving a specific milestone to reach the peak of life fulfillment"

This is a paradigm shift and it is hard. Being a sexless loser and dreaming of all the women you'll have in the future if you do 1 more rep motivates people. Finding a way to be process oriented takes more time, and I don't have all the pieces of that puzzle yet. My cloudy thoughts on the subject:

1. Have responsibilities and social connections that make compliance to your process oriented life your default action. Prioritize repeat and meaningful connections with people that want you to aim up.

2. Start the long-term mental work of internalizing the lesson that your life is good as a result of the work you're putting in consistently, not as a result of the wins you've had. My first observation of this was everytime I wanted to get promoted at work I would take on some higher level certifications*. (this was a good system at the time, but don't recommend it anymore). Everytime I passed them I'd have very little in terms of externally measurable rewards. Even the cert itself wasn't really doing anything. However, every single time I'd get a promotion or better job about 5-8 months afterwards and it continued paying off years down the line. It's obvious now the actual test and the piece of paper didn't do anything. Me becoming more skilled did.

3. Start the even longer-term process of realizing you really don't give a shit about most hedonism. Hedonism doesn't make you happy most of the time. Sometimes it really can, but it's not super common. We delude ourselves a lot on this. We keep telling ourselves the extra donut or chain masturbating is going to solve some existential crisis around how we feel, but its virtually never the case. When it does happen it's rarely, almost never, as a result of directly chasing it. Knowing that making progress up the hill you are climbing makes you happy. Knowing that you've failed to take the required steps, or that what you're trying isn't working, or not knowing the method to climb is what makes you miserable.

[colgate]

@lacroix is visiting me in japan and we motivated each other to approach.

got my first instadate of the year! no pull and exchanged. will get feedback from the gaijin approach group but for now:

1711529930801.jpg

[Antonio44]

. i should be focusing on HOW i live my life to BE in a STATE of life fulfillment, as opposed to "achieving a specific milestone to reach the peak of life fulfillment"

I really like this realisation. Like achieving the goals isn't that fufilling/the feeling fades and there's always another goal to make, enjoying the journey is where its at.

3. Start the even longer-term process of realizing you really don't give a shit about most hedonism. Hedonism doesn't make you happy most of the time. Sometimes it really can, but it's not super common. We delude ourselves a lot on this. We keep telling ourselves the extra donut or chain masturbating is going to solve some existential crisis around how we feel, but its virtually never the case. When it does happen it's rarely, almost never, as a result of directly chasing it. Knowing that making progress up the hill you are climbing makes you happy. Knowing that you've failed to take the required steps, or that what you're trying isn't working, or not knowing the method to climb is what makes you miserable.

Perhaps we have different definitions of hedonism but I think it's great. Like the past week, my highlights were taking my girl skiing for the first time and a late night visiting some old friends drinking and reminiscing about past stories, I laughed so hard that I cried. I just think the examples you give aren't really hedonistic - eating that extra donut when you're already full isn't really pleasurable.

More and more I identify with the quote from the book "into the wild", "happiness is only real when shared".

Finally, I'd put forth another reason. What the fuck was the point of getting your life together and pulling yourself out of despair? Is the end goal just to just more optimally pursue hedonism? I didn't do all this shit just for me. I did it so I could spread this success outward to those around me. First to my immediate friends and family, and then to my local community and beyond.

I superlike this. Did you always feel this way?

Society is crumbling because all the people capable of fixing it are choosing not to. This site exists because Andy turned around and tried to show his path to other people. Sure, he had other personal goals too, but it would have been easier to not do this and just find some other job. I suspect he realized all the work he did was wasted if he wasn't able to share it with others like him.

I started thinking a lot about maximising impact/legacy the past couple of years, I agree a lot with improving society. TBH it's women (mostly exs) whos softness/caring is rubbing off on me, I used to be selfish as fuck but now I've got about 10% nice guy in me, and I'm motivated to get rich for the impact I can do with it. This forum is full of abnormal dudes (myself included!) and I love it, normal doesn't change society.