colgate - persistence and social battery

[colgate]

Yeah I know you're not in abundance right now, but you should behave as if you were. The point I was making is that your Tinder profile does make you look like you have 10 other girls, so girls will expect behavior congruent with that. Then when you don't, it's weird to her.

I guess this is one of those "chicken and the egg" problems. As in, if I knew how to behave as if I had 10 other girls I probably would, but I don't, and I'm not sure what parts of my behavior are revealing to her that I don't have options.

There are some specific parts of the interaction I think threw me off guard and I could have handled better:

Initially when she came over, she asked me if I was seeing other girls. I said "you're the only girl I'm seeing right now", which is technically true. But I'm not sure it was the optimal response.

She said she noticed that I had changed my tinder pictures. So I told her that I went to Austin over the weekend to meet some friends. Then she said that I don't mind if you see other girls.

I didn't change my response when she said "I don't mind if you see other girls". I'm not really sure exactly what I should have said other than what I actually said (which was actually true).

Then she still had about 2 hours to go before she had to go to work. If I were following the above plan, I probably should have just sent her off. But I made the dumb excuse of "well she lives really far away and what is she even going to do in the meanwhile"

I went against my plan.

I think because I had this plan in mind, I didn't act maximally forward to try to get the lay at all, but I didn't follow the plan either, resulting in this 3rd meetup being zero change from last time.

There are a couple options I have, I'll reiterate them
1. redo the "plan" next time she comes
2. take her on a "date" (and play (m)ltr game with her), maybe/maybe not bring her back after and maybe/maybe not go for the lay
3. go for the lay the next meetup and straight to crib
4. don't hit her up and wait for her to hit me up (and if she doesn't, lose her, which would be fine because I probably need to get burned atm)

very confusing situation for me haha. after the second meetup i thought the lay was inevitable down the road. then she sent me those texts and after this meetup i'm not sure if this is salvageable or if i can veer the trajectory towards a lay (and if i do, it'll probably teach me a lot of "comfort" calibrations)

[colgate]

You can do physical escalation because if you don't it's easy to fall into the platonic/bf box

I think I already touch girls here and there if she's sitting next to me, especially "incidentally". But I don't know how to talk "sexually" and I'm not nearly aggressive enough.

What would you recommend to get me out of the "platonic/bf" box? I know my pre-existing "experience" with girls means my comfort zone is just generic/boring chat.

[Holden]

I guess this is one of those "chicken and the egg" problems. As in, if I knew how to behave as if I had 10 other girls I probably would, but I don't, and I'm not sure what parts of my behavior are revealing to her that I don't have options.

You can think about it logically to some extent. Would a guy who fucks 5 girls per week bother dating someone who won't put out for 3+ dates? Probably not.

When in doubt, just think to yourself "how would a guy who fucks 5 girls a week handle this" and the answer will probably reveal itself. It also works with texting, it ensures you don't waste time becoming her texting buddy or that you don't act overly excited all the time.

Regarding this particular chick, I don't have any advice to offer based on experience because I never went more than 3 dates without sex. Nowadays two is my max unless a chick ticks literally every box.

Honestly I'd just ignore what she says and go for the lay every time we meet up. Last thing I'd do is take her on a date and put in a lot of effort. If anything it should be the opposite: cute dates are reserved for cool, sexual girls who go the extra mile for you.

---

Actually there was one time I dated a girl without sex. I'd seen an FB for the longest time until she got with a serious 40 y/o Dom guy who allowed her to see other guys but no penetration lol. So I basically used her mouth at my leisure and made her do every degrading dirty thing under the sun short of P-in-V sex.

But at that time I was seeing 3 other FBs, and I wouldn't recommend chasing an arrangement like this without actual abundance surrounding it because it will frustrate the hell out of you otherwise.

[colgate]

Honestly I'd just ignore what she says and go for the lay every time we meet up.

Thanks. I think I'll do option #3 then, have us meet up as usual and if she shows up go for the lay. Otherwise if I still don't get the lay, just switch to option #4 and cease contact.

And if she doesn't meet up again, then it'll be the consequences of the blunder and I'll have to eat it.

I'm probably "getting away" with so much regarding this chick because she hasn't discovered how many options she has yet.

[Holden]

I'm probably "getting away" with so much regarding this chick because she hasn't discovered how many options she has yet.

Really tall girls tend to be insecure too.

Honestly you'll probably lose this chick but that's okay. A guy who fucks 5 girls a week wouldn't mind.

[Manly Cockfellow]

Hey Colgate, just wanted to point out something very, very obvious to me, but something that you seem to be oblivious to:
you are an elite man.

I'll say that again so you know I meant it: you are an elite man.

You really need to internalize this, because once you do you'll be able to relax, and be patient, and be your naturally impressive self around sexy, 6'3" young women who REALLY LIKE YOU!!!

And that patient part is key. As soon as you let this girl know you're happy to wait for as long as she needs to feel comfortable -while continuing to improve yourself and your life and while continuing to talk to other girls- the sooner she'll feel comfortable giving it up to you!

Now I'm not saying spend a year taking her on nice dates and spending all your money on her while being content to never have sex, treat your time like it's the valuable thing that it is, but also, don't be so in your god-damn head about proving your manhood or becoming the harem king or whatever that you can't enjoy the company of a sexy young women who likes to jerk you off and give you great head! That is a wonderful thing!

Plus, as much as you overanalyze things, she is probably even more nervous and in her head than you are, so be kind to her (you have far more power over her and over any woman who likes you than you realize).

Like I said to hard-to-focus, if you and he realized how close you both actually are to the sex lives you've dreamed of, you would be sprinting with joy because it's right around the corner! Or maybe you might actually slow down a bit and enjoy the damn journey before it's all over!

Either way you're almost there!

[colgate]

Thanks for the mindset advice @Manly Cockfellow

At first I wasn't sure how to effectively utilize your comment as I typically don't respond to only "support" and "cheerleading".

But I often get "stuck" when I don't know what to do and overanalyze, like many guys.

Combining the mindset @Holden said with yours of thinking "what would an elite man do" would probably properly guide me through many unknown situations. Part of the trouble is that I don't even know what an "elite man" would do in many situations, but I'm sure it's a good enough guiding principle to get me through many hoops. And worst case scenario I can just be like "what would Andrew Tate do" or "what would Troy do"

I'm an elite man.

[Crisis_Overcomer]

what would Andrew Tate do

You mean what would pancakemouse do

[Manly Cockfellow]

I wouldn't worry about some other elite man, because the place where you really want to get is asking yourself "what do I want?" and then honestly answering "I want X".

I saw one of those dumb YouTube videos where a woman gives men dating advice, and they are almost all garbage, but this one was actually spot on, because she said one of the sexiest things a guy can say is "I want...". This is especially true compared to questioning statements: can we have sex? vs I want to fuck you; can you suck my cock? vs I want you to get on your knees like a good girl and suck my cock.

I actually think you look so good at this point it's gonna be a bit strange if you go around asking women for things instead of telling them what you want, because you look elite and like you are used to clearly communicating, and getting, what you want.

And the real reason communicating and thinking this way is so attractive is it implicitly communicates "i'm good enough", and a belief that other people will often give me what I want when I tell them what that is. And that's all I mean when I say you're elite. Not that you're (or anybody is) some super alpha Chad, just that you're healthy enough/good enough to share, and often get, what you want.

All of that being said, it is of course fine if she or anyone else chooses not to give you what you want - you are only giving them the chance to please you, and if they won't then someone else very happily will.

[colgate]

I want you to get on your knees like a good girl and suck my cock.

haha, I'm already very commanding in the bedroom, like borderline autist. I'm like "take it off" "bend over" "suck my dick".

ever since my first lay i don't think I've asked a girl a single time anything, i just steamroll through.

I wouldn't worry about some other elite man

this isn't a matter of "worrying about some other elite man", it's just a last ditch mindset when i get personally stuck in the moment. it's helped me before anyway

[Manly Cockfellow]

haha, I'm already very commanding in the bedroom, like borderline autist. I'm like "take it off" "bend over" "suck my dick".

ever since my first lay i don't think I've asked a girl a single time anything, i just steamroll through

Good man.

this isn't a matter of "worrying about some other elite man", it's just a last ditch mindset when i get personally stuck in the moment. it's helped me before anyway

Yeah, by all means use what works for you.


I guess all I was trying, and probably failing, to say was that a man who has experienced and achieved as much as you, and who looks as good as you has A LOT of power over women, and I hope when you truly believe that you will be a little more patient and empathetic, especially with young women like your tall girl who have FAR less experience than you
(I'm not just talking sexual experience, though you are obviously ahead of her on that front too).

What you've done to transform yourself is nothing short of incredible, and it means you've seen firsthand how powerful you are when you set your mind to something. I don't know that many women, especially young ones, ever experience this, which to me probably makes the world a much scarier place, because unlike you they have never been forced to overcome a truly massive obstacle and seen just how tough and resourceful and determined and powerful they actually are.

I guess another way to say it is like this:
as I've gained experience with women, I realized they aren't the scary ones, I AM.

There's not a woman on the planet I couldn't force to do whatever I wanted if I chose to, and now that I know that I am much more understanding about them needing to feel safe and comfortable with me before I take their clothes off.

I also try to always make sure they know they have the option to stop things no matter what stage of sex we're at, and that we never need to have sex if they aren't up for it. This usually has the wonderful effect of making them feel even more safe and comfortable with me, which not only almost always leads to sex, but usually leads to WAY BETTER SEX!

[colgate]

I also try to always make sure they know they have the option to stop things no matter what stage of sex we're at, and that we never need to have sex if they aren't up for it. This usually has the wonderful effect of making them feel even more safe and comfortable with me, which not only almost always leads to sex, but usually leads to WAY BETTER SEX!

This is actually my biggest weak point. I'm absolutely terrible at "comfort" type calibrations, even though the few times I can fake it (e.g. we're not gonna have sex), the girl ends up being more passionately into me.

Applies out of the bedroom too, say on approaches when I can read the girl is very unsure/scared of me.

My "correction" for this ends up being "convincing" them into telling me no or something.
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I don't know if there's a certain overarching mindset I'm missing or what. All I can think of is something like being "genuinely okay with not getting an outcome" but on the other hand that seems to get me either complacent or defeatist.

[Manly Cockfellow]

"genuinely okay with not getting an outcome"

This is almost exactly the right mindset, all you're missing is "after I've honestly expressed my attraction, and invited this woman who I find cute/sexy/beautiful to make a connection with me"

Once you've done that it's up to her to accept your invitation or not, but the more you communicate "I like you, but ONLY if you like me too" the more she will realize you are not some creep trying to control her, but a healthy man, honestly expressing your attraction, who will be very happy to have sex with her AND very happy if she chooses not to, because you're not some villain trying to force her to do anything she doesn't want to do
(villains with mind control are some of the scariest villains to women: a great example being Killgrave from the Jessica Jones Marvel series)


Below is a quote from my post about a recent date, which I think explains why many women can seem so mean and cold and rude when you first try to connect with them:

She had just told me about a night where she and a girlfriend were walking to their car after dinner, when a guy who had been walking on the other side of the street with his head down looked up, saw them and basically started sprinting their way from across the block... needless to say they were scared and asked a few nearby guys to stand with them till he left (he asked them for change or something). Even though this young woman is almost 6 feet tall, and does motocross, she was still frightened of this average guy... Why?

The best way I've heard of for men to understand what this must be like is to imagine yourself in a gay bar full of nothing but NBA and NFL players, all of which could easily hold you down and do whatever they wanted to you and your body if they chose to. Even though most of them will probably be pretty nice, all it takes is one creep who doesn't care about you and just wants to use your body for his pleasure... and he's so much bigger and stronger than you there's nothing you could do to stop him if he got really mad or desperate.

A little later in the date she said something I thought was a brilliant summary of what it's like to be a woman interacting with a new man:
"Imagine if every once in a while when you opened a cereal box it exploded in your face. Even though you know most cereal boxes are fine, you'd still be very wary of them, because you could be dealing with one of the exploding ones".
Combine this with the gay bar full of potentially volatile NBA/NFL players, and you can understand why men make women nervous at first (before they get to know you!).

Another way I've heard this said is that overly sensitive men are scary to women. Now this of course does not mean women don't like men who are emotional or who are in touch with their feelings (in dating/sex they actually love to hear you moan and grunt and tell her how good she makes you feel and how much she means to you and that you feel close to her).
What it means is women are afraid of men who feel so much anger and desperation and pain that they completely lose their empathy, because even when women try to politely decline these men's invitations they are often met with rage and anger and sometimes even mass shooter vibes (I dated a woman once who was literally approached in a gym by a guy who went on to do a mass shooting).
Just imagine how you would feel if a gay NBA/NFL player hit on you and then became enraged when you said no thank you, or in his desperation continued to grope you and try to kiss you and take your clothes off and have sex with you even when you were clearly uncomfortable and not enjoying it...
You'd be pretty god damn wary of gay professional athletes in the future, despite knowing that most of them are nice.


I can tell a big part of you really LOVES WOMEN, Colgate, and I'm just trying to help you figure out how to express that love, but also your empathy for what she's probably feeling (oh god, I hope this isn't one of those exploding cereal boxes!), as well as your healthy desire to only connect with people who also want to connect with you.

And believe me, from your story and your pictures and the way you write and encourage other guys on this forum I can tell you with certainty there will be many, many people who will want to connect with you (and women who will want to sleep with you).
Any belief that you will have to trick them/seduce them into connecting with you, because you fear no one would ever willing choose to do so, is just plain wrong, and ironically is only going to make it far, far harder to connect with anyone, because they will feel like you just want to control them to satisfy your desire, without caring about what they want.


Maybe a simple phrase you could turn to in the heat of the moment could be something like:

"We can both relax, because I only want you if you also want me"

[Manly Cockfellow]

Was listening to the above video and Dr Miller made the brilliant and extremely empathetic point that most guys don't approach women they don't know, and of the ones that do, most of them are sociopaths

So yet another reason for women to be wary, but also another way you can stand out by showing her you understand just how random and scary it can be to be approached by a strange man!

This is also why I've always liked the opening line of "hey, I know this is random, but..." or "hey I know this is maybe a little strange, but... " and then tell her you think she's cute, compliment something she's wearing, etc.
Starting that way immediately let's her know you have empathy for how's she's likely to be feeling at first, and shows her you're not a sociopath

[Slickbackkhair]

This video is insanely good

And Colgate, you got this. You are money. I read your log from the beginning and you've made massive improvement. And I have to agree the overthinking will go away once you realize you are good enough as is.

Yes, don't stop improving. But you are up there homie. Have faith.