AT FIRST I WAS LIKE, WELL I WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE OUT HERE TALKING TO GIRLS IF I HAD GIRLS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BUT THEN I REALIZED EVEN IF I HAVE GIRLS, I STILL HAVE TO KEEP TALKING TO GIRLS.
LITERALLY NOTHING CHANGES. YOU CAN'T STOP. THERE'S NO "I HAVE THE GIRLS I CAN STOP NOW".
This point definitely helped me this. When I had my FWB I was not putting in the time to get more girls in the pipeline which led to me having a few dry weeks in a row. Now, I'm still putting in the work this weekend even though I already have dates lined up and more I need to schedule. Because we all know numbers can go nowhere, dates can flake, and we are left with nothing again.
Last edited by bonzo34 on Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
dating
resolve job/income
Be an Army Officer
50 lays. 1/50
The first time you quit, it's hard. The second time, it gets easier. The third time, you don't even have to think about it.
be transparent as possible. Stop setting plays. Stop playing chess with life.
you make progress when you face a fear head on
Online
Had all 4 of my dates flake between Saturday and Monday, and a straight to crib attempt flake at the last minute as well. Combined with a date from the previous weekend flaking, it was a 6 date flake streak.
But thanks to my cold approach experience, I'm used to the concept of "mileage" and things coming in waves. As in, I had a magical first lay experience, amazing sex on my second lay (which was my second Tinder contact ever), and uhh..........sex on my 3rd lay (which was my first Tinder contact ever). I've seen how often @Manganiello was getting flaked on in his log, so it was inevitable to go from literal beginner's luck to being thrown into the grinder. Although this was nowhere as severe as my cold approach initial history (first two approaches ever, had two dates with each and then zero dates for another 250~300 approaches).
Was going to have a date on Sunday afternoon, but got hit with a typical female excuse:
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I'm repeatedly receiving feedback that I'm coming off as desperate and pushy. I think it's basically a panic response and I resort to my old hyper-pushy behaviors instead of actually gauging the girl's "compliance" and messaging accordingly. But in this case, such a response is an obvious red light. Hopefully this is the last time I make this kind of literal noob mistake regarding being hyper-pushy on red lights. At this point, it's honestly embarrassing that I resort to coming off so "desperate".
Mon 7/25:
2 dates arranged from existing leads, including the above snapchat.
Instagram was from a vegan flight attendant swinging by Nashville with 40k followers lol. turned into a straight to crib...
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...
that nosedived spectacularly
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so i went to the gym lol
Date
Tinder convo started 7/21. Her profession was listed as "Pharmacy Resident"
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I had sent the gym pic with a joke since the date had been arranged quite "far in the future" (5 days away) just to check up.
We arrive at the bar/restaurant and order sour beers because I like fruity drinks (I'm a real man, I only drink double IPA ).
Chat about our backgrounds. She's leaving Nashville soon and I just moved here. I talk about how I am a music producer and have many music connections in Nashville. She talks about how she's been to China and enjoys eating "authentic food".
I go for the "let's listen to my music at my place" pull I've been using so far. She declines, saying "I have a rule where I don't go back to a guy's place on the first date." LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I change the subject to get her to talk more about herself, where she grew up, etc. Then after 15 minutes, I get the bill and pay for the sour beers. I lead us outside and we walk towards my apartment while chatting.
We are right outside my apartment building so I tell her that my place is right here, let's go. She declines again with her "rule" that she "doesn't go back to a guy's place on the first date". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I invite her to come check out the clubhouse with me. I give her a brief 10-15 minute tour of the pool, gym, and clubhouse area while making chat about how trombone slide positions map to french horn fingerings, because we both used to play in marching band.
Then I walk us to the elevator and say that my place is the next floor above. "you know...I have that rule where I don't go to a guy's place on the first date...one time I did and the guy started being rapey..." LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On that note, I ended the date and walked her downstairs and hugged her goodbye.
We had a pretty decent vibe overall, she has a cute face and a nice body, and this has potential for a second date happening. That is, if I don't get ghosted, or she sends me the "I didn't feel a connection" text. But if she is down, I'm thinking of doing a cooking date where I make some kind of paneer curry because I'm Indian and she's vegetarian and enjoys "authentic food".
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💁🏽♂️🐶 5'5" indian in 🇺🇸→🇯🇵. practitioner of deep work and self-engineering.
Regarding the girl who's "moving to Florida"... When I get a dumb last minute excuse like that I also send pushy texts, but I do it knowing that she doesn't actually want to meet.
Women are trained not to hurt male egos so they never flat out reject you so you have to make them do it if you want some closure for yourself. Even though rationally I know she doesn't want to meet, in the back of my mind I'll have a voice telling me "yeah but what if her excuse is legit?"
So when I'm hit with a dumb excuse I just give them the "okay so when are you available?" and then I get a "I'll let you know" (lie) or "I don't know" and that's when I unfollow them, delete the convo, and put my mind at ease and forget about her.
I'm sure it's not the "game optimal" strategy and you could convince them to come out at a later date with more text game or whatever, but honestly I don't care to put in the effort
Regarding the girl who's "moving to Florida"... When I get a dumb last minute excuse like that I also send pushy texts, but I do it knowing that she doesn't actually want to meet.
Women are trained not to hurt male egos so they never flat out reject you so you have to make them do it if you want some closure for yourself. Even though rationally I know she doesn't want to meet, in the back of my mind I'll have a voice telling me "yeah but what if her excuse is legit?"
So when I'm hit with a dumb excuse I just give them the "okay so when are you available?" and then I get a "I'll let you know" (lie) or "I don't know" and that's when I unfollow them, delete the convo, and put my mind at ease and forget about her.
I'm sure it's not the "game optimal" strategy and you could convince them to come out at a later date with more text game or whatever, but honestly I don't care to put in the effort
Have you ever gotten anywhere with the pushy texts on a "typical female excuse"? I'm really starting to see the obvious patterns now from my experiences over the past year, although it feels like it should have been more obvious to me earlier.
I think girls make such excuses because if she flat out said "I don't want to meet anymore", then she would have to handle the potential of the guy saying "why don't you want to meet?" and even maybe getting mad/blowing up. So it's "safer" to grasp for straws and generate some kind of fantastical scenario that allows her not to come out on the date. Then, even if you try to press her on it, she can stand her ground on the excuse, maybe even flip it on you for "accusing her of lying", and worst case scenario ghost.
💁🏽♂️🐶 5'5" indian in 🇺🇸→🇯🇵. practitioner of deep work and self-engineering.
Have you ever gotten anywhere with the pushy texts on a "typical female excuse"?
uh I'd say it has a 2% success rate lol but that's probably because I misinterpreted the excuse in the first place.
I have a pretty good sixth sense for when an excuse is legit and when it's bullshit. So if I miss 2% of the time then the pushy text does work because she does want to meet.
If she doesn't want to, such a text won't change her mind.
The main problem is that girls feel it's "too fast" to meet up. They have this bullshit rule that they don't meet a guy quickly, but my entire "method" is based around meeting girls within 1-2-3 days of matching (preferably)
I'm fine with losing these girls who'd need "more texting time" and focus on the cool chicks that want to meet quickly.
But some girls insist on wanting to "get to you know" over text, which is bullshit imo but you could get those girls if you're willing to invest some time into texting (which I don't -- not anymore)
--
And yeah the excuses are there because they're trained by society not to hurt male egos or potentially make them angry. that's just how society runs
But if she is down, I'm thinking of doing a cooking date where I make some kind of paneer curry because I'm Indian and she's vegetarian and enjoys "authentic food".
But some girls insist on wanting to "get to you know" over text, which is bullshit imo but you could get those girls if you're willing to invest some time into texting (which I don't -- not anymore)
A friend who keeps his texts short says the following if a girl insists on getting to know him via text:
"Haha yeah, I understand. I don't like texting but we can have a 5-minute chat to see if we click or not. If we don't, we can just stop talking for good"
If they ignore him, he stops engaging them. He's even had girls say "Nah it's ok, let's go out" lol.
@Crisis_Overcomer I've had some success with something like the following line:
"I believe that seeing each other irl even for just 15 minutes is better to get to know someone than chatting online for two weeks, don't you agree?"
Of course they agree, and then you pitch a meet. Doesn't work all the time but decently enough. I usually don't even bother with that though, I like to focus on the enthusiastic yes girls.
still flummoxed at how people write daily logs lmfao
been sleeping too much and incessantly napping so schedule has been atrocious and haven't been keeping up with anything. barely hanging onto the dating stuff.
called a girl whose contact i got on wednesday. was per @Holden's previous idea in my log. here was the preceding chat:
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we ended up calling for about 20 minutes. kind of felt like the first part of a date? but she went onto ramble about shit like how she's "wary of guys" and doesn't "kiss on the first date" because she had some experience with some guy pinning her down blah blah etc. when i probed her schedule, she said she has plans for this weekend and works during the week but she'll be starting school soon and "maybe then". so basically no.
also managed to arrange a date with another girl who has deferred me twice already by sending her a picture of indian food i made because i'm indian.
Fri 7/29: boosts 6:30pm, 8:15pm, 9:00pm, 10:00pm
messaged 7 girls, 4 new, 1 number, 1 date arranged. trash volume again despite extra boost
date schedule:
Sat 7pm
Sun 4pm
Sun 8pm
all black girls. about to experience jungle fever.
Nightgame Wed 7/27: 2 approaches
Troy and @lacroix dragged me out.
Second girl I approach who has a rose in her hair (similar to the rose I posted the other day). Said some dumbass line like "what field did u get that rose from". She was standing right outside this live music venue and it was way too loud so I pretty much immediately "micro-isolated" her to the other side of the street near a barrier where it was quieter.
I'm going to write this story from my own perspective. But I'll preface it by saying that Troy knew that the set was basically going to go nowhere from the beginning, and more experienced guys would agree. The interaction was somewhat novel to me though so I'm going to write about it in detail. Also, there's a lot of value in seeing the disparity in how a noob like me would try to calibrate and what a veteran like Troy would do in the same set.
She was a really hot, i mean it guys! tan 20 year old from Ohio. Just imagine "hot spray tan slim white girl" and you'll be spot on. We were very touchy and she was flirty and giggly while we chatted, which was obviously a green light. Troy and lacroix were distracting her symbiotic parasite fat friend.
But this was a novel situation to me, I didn't really know what to do from here. As in, she would likely follow along with what I have to say, but I didn't have a plan. I was out with two friends and she's in a duo and we just met. How could I pull or make anything of this interaction?
I tried to invite her to a low-key bar to get some drinks but she's not 21. I eventually just decided to stall and tell her we should go two blocks away to a more low-key area, mentally making plans to try to Uber everyone home. But she wants to consult her friend and bring her along so we go back to her friend and my friends.
Then she demands we sing her happy birthday because she just turned 20. In my head I would have sang it just to placate her so we can advance the interaction, but Troy immediately shoots it down with "we'll sing it to you after you come with us". After a mini "argument" Troy sings it hyper fast, they're not "satisfied", I sing it fast-ish but as a "song" and then they're like ok fine.
So we're walking and I have my arm over the tan girl's waist while she has her arm over me, and Troy and lacroix are entertaining the fat friend. Then the tan girl falls down, ditzy night girl style. She demands us to tie her shoe.
My instinct would have been to do it, but Troy immediately shoots her down again and says "hell no, we ain't tying your shoe". She demands it a few more times, and Troy remains firm. Eventually the fat friend sighs and ties the tan girl's shoe and we continue our excursion.
At a crosswalk, I decide to pick up the tan girl and carry her across. It's a move I've seen Troy do at night and I wanted to try it, and this seemed like the perfect opportunity. She kept saying "omg plz dont drop me" to which I replied "lol im gonna drop u ur gonna be in the hospital".
Anyway I had to hold her up and keep her from falling like 3 or 4 times. She basically got even ditzier after I had carried her. Great.
We get to this low-key karaoke bar and Troy leads us all to enter, but of course the tan girl can't get in because she's not 21 yet. So they wait in the entrance area and talk with the bouncer while Troy, lacroix, and I just go inside and go to the bar. This is when Troy was telling me that the set wasn't going to go anywhere. Not knowing what else to do, I believed him but I was still kind of looking out for the girls. And lacroix didn't really care about it because he was just kind of third-wheeling us ahaha.
Troy approached some black girls because he likes black girls. During that approach, the tan girl and her fat friend left the venue.
Later, we saw them riding on a buggy and they passed by us. They stopped and chatted with us. The tan girl pointed at Troy and said "I want your number!!!" so he gave it.
We could sit here and say "oh Troy looks better than you, so he wins out" even though that was "my" girl. While that's true, I also didn't lead the overall interaction and clearly I wasn't leading our group. When it was just the tan girl and I, the interaction was fine and I was leading her. But the moment Troy and the fat friend came into play, Troy was being the leader of our group. Additionally, I was instinctively about to "bend over" and do "favors" for the girl whereas Troy basically shot down anything the tan girl requested. Basically, my needy behaviors deep down surfaced and resulted in additional minus points for me, in contrast to Troy's idgaf attitude and willingness not to cater to the girl.
Though the girl never responded to Troy's text later so it doesn't matter in the end. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Thu 7/28: 10 approaches Fri 7/29: ~6 approaches
Debilitating approach anxiety. I'll spare the details from my log and promospam my approach anxiety Telegram broadcast channel again: https://t.me/+gUWGmTw2s89mOGU5
Something had happened to @arcade_fireee some weeks ago where he was having a "great" interaction with some girl and then she asked him to pull out his phone and she followed herself on Instagram from his account. I actually thought this was genius.
So I decided to do the same. There are so many times I have some yellow light "platonic" interactions that won't escalate, and the girl is about to leave, saying "nice meeting you" and etc, or you can't figure out what to do with the set. And they might even accept a contact exchange but you just get ghosted.
So in 3 of the approaches over the past 2 days, I told the girl to pull up her insta, and then I typed in my username and followed myself. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i can have a bunch of hot girl followers if I keep this up over time. Also, it might be motivation to actually post stories on instagram and use the platform. I really don't think girls will go through the effort of unfollowing you anyway (none of the 3 so far have, and I'm going to guess maybe only 1 in 10 will). Have even been messaging one of them who lives here.
This is basically a last-ditch idea to make certain lackluster approach interactions not go to complete waste. Hey, at least you get another follower and it's a hot girl. I got 3 within ~16, so if you actually approached at volume, could easily get 10-15 followers a week this way from random hot girls to inflate your profile lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nightgame Takeaways
So that's 12 sessions for the month as I set out to do as one of my July goals: viewtopic.php?p=38247#p38247
I'll take a break from it and revisit it after my photoshoot in Austin next weekend for my August plan.
The main thing I've learned is that I cannot simply sporadically go out and do nightgame on random nights if I still haven't handled my approach anxiety. I got over daytime approach anxiety by approaching 11 daysin a row. If you read my log between those posts, I had made sure to approach at least 1 girl a day and in general was trying to approach x+1 girls each day, until eventually something "unlocked" and I just enjoyed the act of prancing up on girls itself, independent of the outcome. And I set the bar retardedly low from the beginning, like doing one approach. And then doing one approach "quickly", then two, etc. Until one day I just did 17 and didn't even care that I got rejected all 17 times.
Additionally, I have far more night approach anxiety now than I did back in e.g. Austin and during all of those gamecations. But at that point I was doing regular daygame, and for the gamecations I would arrive a few days before everyone else specifically to do lots of solo daygame to "prime" me for the nightgame. Nowdays, my daytime approach has "meteorically collapsed" to zero, and the only approach I do is at night. Even though I have zero approach anxiety when I do make the occasional bullshit daygame approach here and there.
The two points above will be things to consider for my August month plan. I think nightgame is only "easier" for people who actually enjoy clubbing and going out at night. But for people who don't, daygame is much easier. WIth daygame, you don't already have to be in the "party mood" and girls' egos aren't automatically inflated from being in their playground, and you don't get those strategic dynamics such as "hot girl/fat friend" symbiotic duos.
I want to get good at nightgame because I basically want to suffer (lol just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....maybe........), and I can potentially get the hottest girls from nightgame instapulls (as in, girls who probably wouldn't agree to go on a future date with me from daygame nor match with me on Tinder might be dtf at night and if the stars align like that cheerleader lay, I can make it happen). Plus, I just want to get good at nightgame because I think in order to be good at nightgame, you have to be maximally in tune with social skills + coolness/vibe + looks, more than any other method of getting girls. It'll be a multi-year project for me I think, and I plan on staying in Nashville until I enjoy and am good at this. I honestly have no other purpose in my life right now.
Online has actually helped me with my nightgame interactions too. When I finally have the balls to make an approach and get into a conversation, I feel like I'm teasing girls more and playing around rather than just asking dumbass interview questions entirely. Online dating interactions are teaching me the pace and flow of how to go from "meeting" a girl to getting her out on a date (essentially getting her to greenlight), rather than just stubbornly pushing forward like an autist and like how I used to. I really enjoy the cross-pollination effect from doing these simultaneously.
Online only helps with the actual interaction part. I think I can get maximum gains if I incorporate daygame again. I didn't really have night approach anxiety when I was also doing daygame so I think I need to do it again. Also I can get more dates of course, and I'm literally sleeping on the avenue I'm the most "comfortable" with when interacting with girls.
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💁🏽♂️🐶 5'5" indian in 🇺🇸→🇯🇵. practitioner of deep work and self-engineering.
We could sit here and say "oh Troy looks better than you, so he wins out" even though that was "my" girl. While that's true, I also didn't lead the overall interaction and clearly I wasn't leading our group. When it was just the tan girl and I, the interaction was fine and I was leading her. But the moment Troy and the fat friend came into play, Troy was being the leader of our group. Additionally, I was instinctively about to "bend over" and do "favors" for the girl whereas Troy basically shot down anything the tan girl requested. Basically, my needy behaviors deep down surfaced and resulted in additional minus points for me, in contrast to Troy's idgaf attitude and willingness not to cater to the girl.
This is a very valuable insight actually. THAT is the definition of Game imo: core beliefs that surface in subtle behaviors.
I highly recommend this book, if Pancake hasnt recommended it to you already:
