Physical Escalation on Dates

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cloudburst
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Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:57 am

Hi all,

I’ve been having decent success in the dating game, however I’m looking to improve more - particularly in my close rates.

I’ve been studying Blackdragon/Caleb Jones’ content and it has been a net positive on my OLD and first date closing ability, however I’m struggling a bit with the no kissing on first dates and with escalating to sexual conversation. I’ll be the first to admit that it may not be a big problem, as I’ve only hit low double-digit numbers of first dates and have about a 35% rate of getting a second, and could just be not enough numbers.

For the kino - what generic things do y’all like to do over the course of the date if you don’t kiss? I usually just open with an arm-behind-the-back or side-hug when I meet them, as it’s about as physical as most girls are okay with you getting in the first minute in my experience thus far. I’ve had success with more niche kino like pushing the hair back to hold an earring, gently touching an arm/leg to trace or ‘see a tattoo better’ during the date, but these don’t often apply. I think, as with most self improvement, I’m getting a little worse since applying this since I now think I’m portraying that I’m uncomfortable touching them (whether it be lack of attraction or unconfident). The whole point of not kissing them is to marinate the sexual attraction after the short first date, but I worry that currently I’m not leaving enough to marinate. (Even though I’m a decent conversationalist and they’re usually smiling or laughing often) I think the greatest failings are probably first in how I break off the date (usually resulting in a walk to their car and a hug or side-hug) or in the greeting (I have always thought side-hugs are cringy in any context).

Secondly, but in the same vein, I struggle to get to talks of sexuality. Part of the tension you’re to build is demonstrating that you’re comfortable being a sexual creature. Unfortunately, the main way to get to sexuality is to speak of past relationships, and the last few dates I’ve been on have ended in messy breakups one way or another so I have to revert back to fluff talk to keep the vibe light and fun. Also a failing of me to build sexual tension.

The only obvious solutions I have yet to test extensively is to more-or-less just grab her hand as we walk as a display of physical confidence and to try to jokingly blame the failure of the relationship on a lack of the ex’s bedroom prowess. These don’t seem like fantastic solutions though.

I don’t think there’s much to be improved in terms of body language, as I’m quite relaxed(take space, lean back, smile) and make good eye contact (usually triangle gaze, shifting to background and pointing something around us out), and don’t speak too fast. (Could maybe work on keeping deeper tonality, though).

Interested to hear your thoughts - happy to answer any followup questions.
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Kurvam
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Sat Jun 04, 2022 4:49 pm

What's the actual reason you're not trying to close on the first date and bring them home?

When it comes to touching girls on dates, a few things i used to do when i did more public dates were touching their hands commenting on their rings/nail polish if they had no rings, touching their hair asking if its their natural colour or if they'd always had this length hair, if they mention working out or doing sports grabbing their arm or thigh lightly relating to that etc.
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SpicyBoi
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Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:23 pm

Hey man, when it comes to dates there’s no need to wait for tension or anything like that - she’s already there and most likely keen, it’s just up to you to lead the way home.

Best thing is to not overcomplicate it with too many techniques. I’d say a hug at the start, hold their hand at some point and then try to kiss her. From there try and get her back to your place.
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TheRealGizmo
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Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:05 pm

Heres my input.

You're just seeing whether the girl is in or out on the first date. You're feeling her out. Some things I'll think about will be like,...what are this chicks morals? is she looking to get laid? Is she going to hold out because she wants me to be her boyfriend? Am I presenting myself in a way to where she'll know exactly what she's in for?

You want to basically talk around any stupid shit like past relationships or shit like that. If she's dumb you could probably build some value by bragging about past girls if they're hotter than her, but I would generally avoid that type of conversation.

Yea when it's there right away and it's easy that's awesome but a lot of the time you're gonna want to get creative. Like instead of doing some weird red-pill triangle gaze make it obvious you're looking at the chicks body. Maybe stick ur tongue out like you're Michael Jordan going for a dunk. Unless you're already at a high level I just don't see the point in worrying about small details yet. That's something you save for when you're already at the top of your game and want to keep improving.

Shit bro I don't care who the girl is I'll literally just drive her around for a little bit in my car after the first date, take her to a secluded area, and go for the close right there. Literally just take it as far as she's gonna let you because that's what's going to keep them around for more. Being aggressive while also maintaining your humility and social awareness is what is going to take you far. +
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Brother_Tucker
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Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:34 pm

cloudburst wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:57 am
Hi all,

I’ve been having decent success in the dating game, however I’m looking to improve more - particularly in my close rates.

I’ve been studying Blackdragon/Caleb Jones’ content and it has been a net positive on my OLD and first date closing ability, however I’m struggling a bit with the no kissing on first dates and with escalating to sexual conversation. I’ll be the first to admit that it may not be a big problem, as I’ve only hit low double-digit numbers of first dates and have about a 35% rate of getting a second, and could just be not enough numbers.

For the kino - what generic things do y’all like to do over the course of the date if you don’t kiss? I usually just open with an arm-behind-the-back or side-hug when I meet them, as it’s about as physical as most girls are okay with you getting in the first minute in my experience thus far. I’ve had success with more niche kino like pushing the hair back to hold an earring, gently touching an arm/leg to trace or ‘see a tattoo better’ during the date, but these don’t often apply. I think, as with most self improvement, I’m getting a little worse since applying this since I now think I’m portraying that I’m uncomfortable touching them (whether it be lack of attraction or unconfident). The whole point of not kissing them is to marinate the sexual attraction after the short first date, but I worry that currently I’m not leaving enough to marinate. (Even though I’m a decent conversationalist and they’re usually smiling or laughing often) I think the greatest failings are probably first in how I break off the date (usually resulting in a walk to their car and a hug or side-hug) or in the greeting (I have always thought side-hugs are cringy in any context).

Secondly, but in the same vein, I struggle to get to talks of sexuality. Part of the tension you’re to build is demonstrating that you’re comfortable being a sexual creature. Unfortunately, the main way to get to sexuality is to speak of past relationships, and the last few dates I’ve been on have ended in messy breakups one way or another so I have to revert back to fluff talk to keep the vibe light and fun. Also a failing of me to build sexual tension.

The only obvious solutions I have yet to test extensively is to more-or-less just grab her hand as we walk as a display of physical confidence and to try to jokingly blame the failure of the relationship on a lack of the ex’s bedroom prowess. These don’t seem like fantastic solutions though.

I don’t think there’s much to be improved in terms of body language, as I’m quite relaxed(take space, lean back, smile) and make good eye contact (usually triangle gaze, shifting to background and pointing something around us out), and don’t speak too fast. (Could maybe work on keeping deeper tonality, though).

Interested to hear your thoughts - happy to answer any followup questions.
You're over thinking things. If you need a script you can use the following: -

Start with a hug then lead your date into the place. Sit next to her and say "I hate sitting opposite people, it always feels like a job interview and that's way too stressful". Go for a cheers glass clink and at a some point in the conversation let your leg touch hers and see if she moves away. After you build some rapport, you can say "what would you like to know about me? I believe in 100% honestly, otherwise how could you trust me to remember your safe word and untie you?" this will move the conversation sexually or will intrigue her. She may shy away, but this will give you a clear indication of who you're dating.

End of the date, walk her back to her car/train/bus and hold her hand. If you get to this point kiss her at the end of the date. If the tension is there the kiss should happen naturally, holding it back seems wrong if the chemistry is there but that might just be my experience.

Never speak badly about her ex, it doesn't help you in anyway other than reminding her that she used to get railed by someone else that she still feels enough for that she wanted to bring him up on the first date.
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Antonio44
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Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:48 pm

I never talk about sexual topics unless I've slept with the girl already, i don't think it's that helpful.

But i am good with touch. The key is to make it natural/ not weird and not lingering until a little more comfortable.

E.g walking to cross road, with your hand lightly touch girls stomach/back to stop her/ go.

Take her hand to lead her through busy places.

Sitting on a couch - pull her close when she says something amusing, leave arm around her.

I am playful too for my entertainment and screen for girls who are playful too, so i like to pick girls up, spin them around, give piggy back rides or whatever - but not necessary unless you like it too.
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Svadhishthana
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Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:15 am

This is probably not an optimal strategy. But my favorite strategies are really just me leaning into my autism.

Eg:

- Upon first meeting, go for the customary hug. Hold her in the hug loosely while leaning back a bit, and say "So, wanna kiss?"

- Grab drinks, sit down. When sitting down, she sits down first - you sit down next to her. If she comments "why'd you sit next to me, that's weird," look at her incredulously and say "well, because I was planning to make a move on you."

- If I didn't already kiss her, then during our first round of drinks, really obviously and awkwardly move my seat closer to her. Return to line - "so, wanna kiss?"

- After kissing, really blatantly put my hand on her thigh for basically no reason. She looks down. I look down. We look back at each other. "Does it make you uncomfortable?" "I don't know..." I take my hand off "Ok, how do you feel now?" She puts my hand back.

- We both finish our first round. I say "so we've both finished our drinks. Wanna go back to my place?"

I credit just following the templates on the tinder guide. By the time the girls show up, they typically already know what they signed up for. I think a more optimal strategy would be to do lots of teasing and flirting and building layers of sexual tension with your oh-so-subtle flits of the eye. But some girls just wanna fuck, and you don't need to do anything special.
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