Need Help pivoting from a relationship to a casual/hookup mode and limited time

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Jbell98
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:20 pm
Name: John
Goal: Move past my Nice Guy S
Age: 24
Motto: Consistent Results, Inconsistent Lifestyle

Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 am

I'll give some background on me and my journey I'm on, and what I'm currently struggling with.

So I was in a long term relationship from the time I was 18 and had just started college, until 6 months after graduation, when things abruptly ended (This was November 2021). I think it likely would have happened no matter what, due to issues on her end, but I definitely made a huge amount of mistakes and wasn't nearly as good of a partner as I could have been.

I spent the next year both on the road for work and also reinventing/working on myself, reading and studying on evolutionary psychology, male/female dynamics, and sexual desire/attraction, and finally at the end of last year felt ready to go out and try dating again.

I have used Tinder, Bumble and Hinge, and so far, only really gotten results from Tinder (I spent a good chunk of the end of last year trying to get comfortable just talking to girls in person, so I didn't hit the apps until the beginning of January.) With 1 month of Tinder Gold and just endless swiping, I've gotten probably 40 or so matches, the vast majority of which either ghosted me, were scams, or I rejected outright, and probably 6-8 good conversations going, which so far I've only managed to convert to 1 (sexless) date. So I'm still developing that, and am busy reading the posts here regarding better pictures and style (If you've seen the picture I have, it's a lot of what I've got, and I definitely tend to attract the girls who like blue collar guys, which I'm fine with.) Currently, as I've been described by one girl who actually asked me out, I have a vibe of "nice and kind but also cool."

I've got two issues that I wanted to ask people here on though. First one is pivoting to a casual/hookup mode. I'm in a temporary location right now, so I don't want anything serious, but all I know to do is to do the rapport building dates. I've gotten pretty decent at asking girls out over Tinder right away, but actually moving things towards a seduction/sexual vibe is where I struggle. I think one of my biggest issues is mental (I don't like to feel like a douche, nor is really flirty behavior natural for me, though I'm working on it.) So a lot of the girls I tend to match with are ones looking more for slow-burn, long term relationships, not quick sex. How do I change my game and pivot so I can shift into that mindset and attract those women?

My other huge constraint is time. I work a job (really two) that require a tremendous amount of travel, and on top of that, I travel for conventions, and just for fun, so I'm rarely in one area very consistently. I would like to turn this into an asset, because I can hook up with girls in different cities, but figuring out how to pivot to the mindset, and really only having a couple hours a day to put into it (because I'm working nearly 60-70 hours a week, then I need time for exercise, self-development, meals, etc.) so right now, I'm looking for tips or strategies to make the most efficient use of my time possible.

Any tips are appreciate! Apologies for the long wall of text
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ytlord
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Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:08 am

So first I would point out that 40 matches to one date ratio is about average, if you want more dates you simply need more matches. No matter what course of action you take to improve on your “seduction vibe”, you will definitely need more volume, and more dates, so as always improving your pictures and profile should be priority number 1.

The two biggest things that will shift you from relationship to hookup territory are edge and being more aggressive on dates. If you haven’t read Andy’s Tinder guide now is absolutely the time to do it.

For edge, add accessories, maybe a tattoo, and switch up your style. I don’t know how to do “blue collar” style and I don’t know anyone here who does, so you may need to consider changing your overall goal there or be ready for a lot of experimentation. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

The other thing, and I would say the biggest, is just to constantly try to pull girls after 1 hour on a date. Fuck all this complicated “rapport building / breaking” PUA shit, just blurt out a shitty pull after one hour and eventually you’ll get the vibe figured out.

I learned by saying “hey, I’m having a lot of fun, let’s go back to my place and hang out some more” one hour into the date. Every time. One of the most boring dates I ever had turned into a long term FWB because I just asked this instead of thinking “the vibe is wrong how do I pull this off”.

So basically improve your pictures, get more practice, and keep aggressively trying to pull whether you think your vibe is working or not. Eventually, you’ll figure the other shit out.

As far as traveling goes, can’t really help you there, I’m trying to figure out something similar myself right now lol
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Bman
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Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:10 am

First off, welcome. Sounds like you have already been taking action which is great to see!
Jbell98 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 am
Apologies for the long wall of text
Don't apologize. It's your log, use it as you please. I only point this out because it's the apologizing for who you are/ what you do that is symptom of your nice guy mindset that girls are going to pickup on. As evidenced by...
Jbell98 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 am
described by one girl who actually asked me out, I have a vibe of "nice and kind but also cool."
On question 1.I'm a big proponent of finding models of other people similar to you and learning from their experiences, applying it to your own. So I'd recommend reading my log and lay reports. Last year in April I got divorced from 8 year LTR, jumped on the forums in May, had to flip my mindset as you are describing, and went from 3 lifetime lays to 19. I left my learnings, mindset shifts, and resources that helped me at each stage in those posts. I'm by no means perfect at all as I'm still developing myself, but it's a good place to start.

On question 2. If your goals are important to you, then you will make time for them. I have startup, work a part time job, go to the gym, and have a pretty strict bedtime. Usually leaves about 2 hours in an evening to go on a date, bring the girl home, and fuck her. Of course if I have a girl in my bed at the moment and I'm enjoying my time with her, then the bedtime gets a more lax. Learn to get efficient with you time. It's hard to make recommendations without knowing how you are spending your time. So I would advise recording for a full week the activity you are doing for every hour. Then you can decide where to squeeze in all your goals.
Public Log: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1397
Year 1: viewtopic.php?p=49033#p49033
Year 2: viewtopic.php?p=66924#p66924

"Absorb what is useful. Reject what is useless. Add what is essentially your own." - Bruce Lee
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Jbell98
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:20 pm
Name: John
Goal: Move past my Nice Guy S
Age: 24
Motto: Consistent Results, Inconsistent Lifestyle

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:24 am

ytlord wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:08 am
So first I would point out that 40 matches to one date ratio is about average, if you want more dates you simply need more matches. No matter what course of action you take to improve on your “seduction vibe”, you will definitely need more volume, and more dates, so as always improving your pictures and profile should be priority number 1.

The two biggest things that will shift you from relationship to hookup territory are edge and being more aggressive on dates. If you haven’t read Andy’s Tinder guide now is absolutely the time to do it.

For edge, add accessories, maybe a tattoo, and switch up your style. I don’t know how to do “blue collar” style and I don’t know anyone here who does, so you may need to consider changing your overall goal there or be ready for a lot of experimentation. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

The other thing, and I would say the biggest, is just to constantly try to pull girls after 1 hour on a date. Fuck all this complicated “rapport building / breaking” PUA shit, just blurt out a shitty pull after one hour and eventually you’ll get the vibe figured out.

I learned by saying “hey, I’m having a lot of fun, let’s go back to my place and hang out some more” one hour into the date. Every time. One of the most boring dates I ever had turned into a long term FWB because I just asked this instead of thinking “the vibe is wrong how do I pull this off”.

So basically improve your pictures, get more practice, and keep aggressively trying to pull whether you think your vibe is working or not. Eventually, you’ll figure the other shit out.

As far as traveling goes, can’t really help you there, I’m trying to figure out something similar myself right now lol
Thanks for the advice.

Blue collar as far as I can tell is basically what I'm doing now. It's looking like you stepped off the set of Yellowstone or just look like a country boy. It's generally how I dress on an everyday basis (T-shirts or collared plaid shirts, Ariat (or Carhartt) Blue jeans, boots, nice jacket, sometimes a hat.) It works for me because I grew up on a cattle ranch, so I also have the walk to back up the talk (I don't give off fake cowboy vibe as an example)

By pull, you mean try to get her to your bed? I haven't heard this term before
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Jbell98
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:20 pm
Name: John
Goal: Move past my Nice Guy S
Age: 24
Motto: Consistent Results, Inconsistent Lifestyle

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:30 am

Bman wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:10 am
First off, welcome. Sounds like you have already been taking action which is great to see!
Jbell98 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 am
Apologies for the long wall of text
Don't apologize. It's your log, use it as you please. I only point this out because it's the apologizing for who you are/ what you do that is symptom of your nice guy mindset that girls are going to pickup on. As evidenced by...
Jbell98 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 am
described by one girl who actually asked me out, I have a vibe of "nice and kind but also cool."
On question 1.I'm a big proponent of finding models of other people similar to you and learning from their experiences, applying it to your own. So I'd recommend reading my log and lay reports. Last year in April I got divorced from 8 year LTR, jumped on the forums in May, had to flip my mindset as you are describing, and went from 3 lifetime lays to 19. I left my learnings, mindset shifts, and resources that helped me at each stage in those posts. I'm by no means perfect at all as I'm still developing myself, but it's a good place to start.

On question 2. If your goals are important to you, then you will make time for them. I have startup, work a part time job, go to the gym, and have a pretty strict bedtime. Usually leaves about 2 hours in an evening to go on a date, bring the girl home, and fuck her. Of course if I have a girl in my bed at the moment and I'm enjoying my time with her, then the bedtime gets a more lax. Learn to get efficient with you time. It's hard to make recommendations without knowing how you are spending your time. So I would advise recording for a full week the activity you are doing for every hour. Then you can decide where to squeeze in all your goals.
So generally I have good time management. Right now, I'm on East Coast time working California hours by and large, so I will usually wake up, eat, and get exercise in in the morning since I can't start my work day until later. Typically I'm working until mid-evening or into the night. I try to cook on weekends ahead so that I'm not spending time doing that either.

One weakness I have is I tend to get distracted by non-work things like browsing Tinder, other websites, etc, so I have time blockers installed that run most of the day to make sure I'm staying on track. My window to actually have Tinder open is 19:00-00:00.

The biggest issue I have is the travel. I have to be ready to head somewhere at the drop of a hat, so sometimes I might have 12 hours notice before I'm on a plane somewhere for possibly 5-7 days, so it makes it difficult for me to schedule anything very far in advance. This is where I'm trying to develop habits or strategies that can help me improve my game that are flexible.
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Squilliam
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Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:16 am

Jbell98 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:24 am
By pull, you mean try to get her to your bed? I haven't heard this term before
Basically, pull is a term for inviting her back to your place. You need to do this at the end of every single first date. This is the most important thing, as ytlord pointed out. It doesn't matter if you have amazing PUA/Game techniques if you don't ask her to come home with you.
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MILFandCookies
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Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:30 pm

I second what @ytlord and @Bman said above.

And I'll add, the difference between what you're used to and casual fwb is the focus on having sex quickly.

You want to make sure she's sexually available asap. Andy's tinder guide is good for this as others said above.

Pay attention to the edginess part. Accessories like bracelets, chains, rings etc. will help. Leather jackets are badass too, and leather combat boots.

Depending on your vibe/look a backwards hat also works.

Here's a photo of me in full fuckboi mode btw:
a1.jpg
If you present yourself as a guy who gets laid, girls will see you as a casual option. It feels weird at first but over time you get used to it. It'll eventually be authentic to you.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I've helped > 100 guys get laid on dating apps.
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Zug
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Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:37 pm

There is probably no natural way to transition into it. You will need to force it unnaturally, it will be uncomfortable, you will be incongruent, you will rub some people the wrong way. That is just how the process goes. You can't have the reward if you're unwilling to go through the pain. It's not supposed to be an effortless natural process. Acting against your default programming is like pushing a couch uphill when the floor is made of sandpaper. My tips:

1. Get the edginess into your profile. You don't have to be THAT polarizing, but if you're not doing any sexual verbal escalation during the texting and if your profile has no edgy statements then you're going to only be attracting conservative girls. This is the #1 difference maker. 40 matches with a sexual profile is better than 100 matches with a boyfriend profile.

2. This is somewhat optional, but you can hard pre-screen with the "what are you looking for message" prior to closing. This can force a certain frame from either side prior to meeting. You don't have to do this, you can discover all this in person with correct social skills, but if you have limited time for dates and don't want to meet unless a girl has the potential to be down, then say so (in a calibrated way)

3. You have to create sexual tension during the date, you have to find a way to be in close physical proximity, and you need to make the conversation man to woman and sexual. You don't have to be very physical..it certainly helps, but I pulled the first 10 girls with virtually no physical touch.

4. This one is more my belief, but its your responsibility to lead the interaction. If you have a sexual profile and texting, and the girl shows up, she probably does want to have sex with you. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HER to make it happen. She is counting on you to lead the interaction in a way that sex can happen in a way that doesn't make her feel like a slut or ashamed of herself. It's not just a question of just your confidence, but a question of you living up the implicit agreement you had before meeting. This reframing of how you think about it is a good one, because it gets you out of your head and gets you thinking about the task and how you should solve it. Leading the conversation, pushing her buttons, making it man to woman, getting her to invest, sexualizing, pulling her back to your place, making a move, making it a good experience. These aren't just some 'nice to haves', but a responsibility you are willingly accepting. Those aren't her job, they are your job. Saying "well I just don't like doing X" is a useless fucking statement that should make you cringe as much as if someone told you that at work when you asked them to do their job.

5. Be ruthless fucking honest. This doesn't happen overnight, your goal is to be more honest everyday. Typically after I've pulled a girl back, we've chatted and made out a bit, I'll pull away for a bit and make her restate what she is looking for. If she is looking for serious, I will tell her I respect that, but I am not. I will tell her exactly what I AM LOOKING FOR, and ask her if that's something she is cool with. So far I've never had this not work, and I've never had a girl get mad at me later for deceiving her or tricking her. Even girls exclusively looking for serious are more than willing to make an exception if they're turned on and the guy is being honest with them. They just don't want to be tricked, made a fool of, or have to regret their decision later.
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Squilliam
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Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:25 am

Zug wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:37 pm
2. This is somewhat optional, but you can hard pre-screen with the "what are you looking for message" prior to closing. This can force a certain frame from either side prior to meeting. You don't have to do this, you can discover all this in person with correct social skills, but if you have limited time for dates and don't want to meet unless a girl has the potential to be down, then say so (in a calibrated way)
I'm not really sure what purpose this serves. Even if a girl is down to hookup, they're not likely to be upfront about it. I guess it could help you weed out girls if they end up being the more conservative type, but then again, it's well known that girls will sometimes say that they're not looking for a hookup and then they do it anyways. In my experience, most girls will respond with something along the lines of "just want to see where things go". Which doesn't really tell you much.

In general, I think screening through messages is not really the most effective way. As you mentioned, I think it's more about the way you convey yourself in your photos.
Zug wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:37 pm
This one is more my belief, but its your responsibility to lead the interaction. If you have a sexual profile and texting, and the girl shows up, she probably does want to have sex with you. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HER to make it happen.
I agree with you. Because whether we like it or not, men are expected to make the first move when it comes to women, OP. Girls rarely (if ever) are going to make it happen for you. It has happened to me, but very infrequently. And if you're not above a certain SMV threshold it probably will never happen. Either way, it's never effective to wait around for a girl to make things happen.

I also think you bring up an excellent point about honesty. I remember one of my past lays tried shit testing me with, "So you just want to hookup with me?", to which I told her that I'd rather be honest and upfront. It's pretty hard to argue with that. Obviously, honesty is not an excuse to be a total dick, but it would be pretty bizarre for a girl to argue for deception over honesty.
check out my blog: https://squilzpursuit.wordpress.com/

- Do 1000 approaches by end of 2024 (~350/1000)
- Get laid from daygame
- Learn game and stop being a social autist
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