Rice photo log

[Rice]

edit: I am going to make this my log for photos progress because they tend to get drowned out in my main log.


---- original -----

I know this forum hates these one off threads. But I've posted this question on my log:

viewtopic.php?p=62407#p62407

As well as the main feedback megathread:

viewtopic.php?p=63083#p63083

And mentioned numerous times on my main log updates that I have been struggling with online dating all year. I have also asked for feedback on previous versions of my profile on my log and aside from one very obviously bad iteration where I was standing around like a lonesome bodybuilder, I haven't gotten any feedback.

Or maybe this is my fault because I have been avoiding complaining lately and so didn't spell out explicitly that I still need help with my profile. So hopefully by making a separate thread this is clear.

Background

I am a 5'3.5 asian guy living in Canada. I had completely different archetypes with each major iteration of my profile:

• I first joined tinder in October 2021, free version at first but got on platinum in the new year. Photos were shit. A few candid blurry iPhone pics and a shirtless mirror selfie. Basically generic bro dude that has abs.
  
  Had insane self confidence issues and overall a loser who was running an incel server. During this 6 month period I still managed 11 dates, 2 lays and almost a third lay who would have turned into my gf
  
  
  IMG_0521.jpg

• May 2022. Met up with @Mimbe393939, got DSLR photos and started boosting. I would keep this profile all the way until May 2023.
  
  I still had insane self confidence issues so my dates were not going well but this profile net me well over 50 dates in a 6 month period from May 2022 to November 2022. I got 5 lays during this period. Matches dropped off rapidly around November and I don't know why exactly because the next 6 months I would only get 4 more dates and 2 more lays.
  
  This was around the time I addressed my confidence issues so perhaps thats why my date:lay ratio improved so much. Or I was only getting dates with chicks who really liked me so it was impossible to fuck up at this point.
  
  
  IMG_3822.jpg

• May 2023. I overhauled my style and took new pics but my posing was very lonesome bodybuilder. I got zero dates for the next 4 months. This one I already got feedback on but I am adding it for completeness. The gist is that I am not doing anything except standing around like loser and girls can sense that.
  
  
  IMG_6844.jpg

• My current profile has been active for 2 months and had 200$ worth of boosts thrown at it, way more than I ever spent in the past. Even without boosts it gets 2-4 matches a day automatically, so in the 2 months its been running I have gotten over 300 matches.
  
  
  IMG_9025.jpg
  IMG_9026.jpg
  IMG_9027.jpg
  IMG_9028.jpg
  IMG_9029.jpg
  IMG_9030.jpg
  
  Except I've only gotten 3 dates and one lay. Historically I have always gotten around 1 date per 25-30 matches and I have been texting girls the exact same way over the years. I am autistic and generally do not change things so this isn't exaggerating.
  
  This seems obvious thats its "text game" but I don't see it. My texting has a few steps:
  
  • 1. Clickbait opener
  • 2. Compliment, sexual if possible (somehow how all my lays been with the compliment: "I like your style, the dress really shows off those curves"
  • 3. talk about hobbies and ask out
  • 4. plan date over text
  • 5. date
  For years I have reliably lost about 50% of girls with each step, which means it would take 32 matches on paper to lead to one date. This is exactly what was observed. During November 2022 I just simply didn't get many matches, leading to less dates but the pattern held true.
  
  Nowadays its 50% down to step 3, in which case its a steady drop. My hypothesis is that this is the time when girls give my profile a second look, which clues in that there is something fundamentally off about my profile... That is what I need help with.

Hinge

Its also worth noting that I have never gotten a single date from Hinge despite having matched 200+ girls in my time of trying it for a few weeks every now and then and giving up. I would get matches just fine and then girls would drop off at step 3, just like tinder is right now.

Is it because I am too fuckboy for Hinge? maybe. But I doubt it. I think its because I am forced to list my height and that instantly disqualifies me. If there are any other guys here who are 5'5 or shorter and get good results on Hinge then please respond. (@Ed_ ?)


My thoughts

These are the things I know for sure:

• I am not shadowbanned or cucked by the algorithm. Tinder can only control the number of matches you get, and I am getting matches and initial responses just fine.

• I am an attractive enough archetype in my region because I can get dates from cold approach with no "game"

• I am responding to girls fast enough. This is mainly for people who know me, I have a bad habit of getting bored and taking 12+ hr to respond to chicks sometimes. However, in my earlier days I did this out of anxiety anyway. And for the past month I am aware of my habits and forced myself to reply as soon as I see a bubble. This hasn't changed results

These are the things I unsure about and would like other people's opinion:

• tinder added optional height as part of profile now. Not sure how much this affects me because tall guys would usually write it in their bio anyway

• tinder keeps pushing for verified profiles now. Does verified actually matter more now than it did in say, 2021?

• I know online dating is an arms race, but is it really so bad that I went from killing it to basically irrelevant in less than a years time

• is there subtle incongruence to how I present myself that I am too autistic to see?

• tinder added a feature that it asks users if they feel safe with "inappropriate language" is it now bad to use sexual words? just cus the popup might kill the vibe

• there is probably something obvious that I am missing

These are the things I am going to be doing in the next few weeks and would like feedback on if it is sound or not:

• I suspect my profile looks too obviously staged, esp the way my hair looks in 4 of the photos. So I am thinking deleting two of them and adding another iPhone photo. Would like feedback on which two are my weakest.

• find a new texting strategy just in case mine is obsolete now

My goals

I am no Chad. But I don't see why I shouldn't be able to get at least 1 date a week consistently. Just in general, I have noticed a pattern where the members here who do both cold approach and online dating, and have done between 500-2000 approaches, always get results online >= cold approach.

Intuitively this makes sense, we are doing "tinder in real life" because this isn't a game forum. Tinder on tinder will always be more efficient because advertise to more girls at once.

This used to be me as well. But now its the other way around. This year I have gone on over 30 dates from Cold Approach, but literally only 6 from apps. Could this just be a 2023 thing or is it a me thing? Its hard to tell because the members I am thinking of have all moved out of the west or stopped posting.

I am willing to accept that I simply fell behind the arms race and need to put in more effort into my profile to catch back up. If this is the case then advice for my next shoot would be appreciated.


Rant

If anyone knows a guy shorter than 5'6 who actually gets consistent sex from apps (in North America) I would be very inspired and happy to see that I simply suck and need to work harder because height isn't an excuse. My experience has always been other short guys debating if its even possible to get a gf...

Or god forbid, actually get laid from tinder. But I already knew that from the start from my own experience. This is arrogant to say but I have still yet met in person or even chat online with anybody as short as me who gets hotter girls. And this is why online dating has always been discouraging for me. I don't want to be the best I know.

I know that its possible to get laid in general as a short guy because in real life, vibe and game can make up the difference. I am still working on cold approach, so if online dating fails Il be alright. But I would also like to achieve a level of online dating where I can get 1 decent girl a month because its Cold in Canadian winter.

I am looking for inspiration from a guy who is:

• Is at or below the average height of women in his area. I consider this "actually short" as you are no longer noticeably taller than the majority of women (sorry 5'8 guys, ur not actually short). The average height of women where I am from is 5'5

• Living in North America

• Uses online apps for his pipeline

• Is not a local celebrity (but using deepfake or whatever to appear like one is fair game)

If nobody knows, thats fine. Il figure it out myself. It would just make the process way simpler as I would finally have somebody I can compare myself to.



PS: Sorry for the clickbait title. I wanted people to actually read this

[MakingAComeback]

Rice man, I understand you're quite annoyed right now, and we will do our best to help you

I have your back and want to help you, OK?

But reading this, you are stressing about your looks and height a lot. I am going to be sensitive to the situation, and not straight up lock this, but this absolutely is the sort of thread we need to have in the progress logs section. If you changed the title and made a post asking for help, and tagged some of the active users, we'd help you of course.

I am sorry you are doubting yourself right now. It seems like you are in a dark space, and I understand, I have been there many times as you know.

You are, in my opinion, a very attractive man, and you have a bright future with this. You know very great guys in Game who will get you there and you even had coaching with Dante and he does not bullshit around, I understand he said you will be OK?

I don't want to pry too much, I sense you're not in the headspace for that, but one thing I will say, is that I can relate, and this game requires a lot of grinding and toughness of mind.

If the quality we seek isn't there, then we just have to improve more. Which is what we're trying to figure out here.

However..........you do need to get it out of your head that success is not possible.

Yes, there ARE short guys getting laid, dude. Yes, abso-fucking-lutely. They are.

We know them, they exist.

And they are making it happen.

GLL had a classic article about a dude who was 5ft1 who slays.

You are not, and will never be as low SMV as me. If you saw some of the treatment I get, it would make your skin crawl. I am brown, have an ugly face, there are very, very few female human beings in this world who would feel attraction for me. You are not in low SMV hell. I don't want you to be there, and this is really positive. It's dark down here, dude, there's rats scurrying around, it's fucking horrible.

And yet, despite what is close to impossible, through sheer force of will and game, I do actually obtain outcomes, and the quality of treatment I can receive here and there, is actually what I am looking for and fits my goals.

I get women to date me, close through actually having some game, and find ways to win.

The path, is different for some men, dude.

There are Level One men (most of the world) who, despite getting laid, really don't have any semblance of a clue & live on Just Exist mode.

And there are others, who, for whatever reason the world decided, just need to go way, way, way, way, way deeper in order to start turning this around.

There is a certain amount of you that just has to fall into the abyss and die in this game, in order to improve.

But improve, you will. Maxx out physically, AND in terms of Game. Texting, vibe, all that.

We can help you understand the areas for development, Nail down an action plan, and start executing.

Every 6 months of hard work, we do improve man.

And if it helps you at all in this moment of doubt, just understand that someone who is at the absolute fucking rock bottom of the bottom, still has a dating and love life, and still has women who want to date him. There is no one who is too ugly, too short, too anything else man. Sorry, but there's just not.

Ravi

[Rice]

Hey @MakingAComeback I appreciate the kind words. But I am actually in a good headspace right now. This isn't about blackpill or whats possible generally through cold approach / game / whatever needs to be done.

btw the GLL article doesn't count because its outdated. and if after a decade thats still the only short guy example? then doesn't that kinda prove my point? I am over that already though because I don't need to see someone else succeed to know that with a small amount of game I will be fine.

Maybe I didn't make it clear enough but game has nothing to do with this.

This is specifically about online dating alone.

Where I feel like I have been disproportionately bad in recently and would like to rectify.

I understand that you like to gatekeep me from claiming "low smv" status because I am asian. And I agree. I am not low smv. So where are the online dating results then?

I made this post because I would like feedback on my online dating profile. Which is important because after all, you, a quote "low smv male" still got way more results from online dating than from cold approach.

This doesn't mean that I ignore anything that Dante told me or have any implication on my game journey. I simply want to get online dating to work again because during certain seasons it is the most efficient way to get experience.

As for why its not in my log, you can go and read it yourself. There was no feedback. And I specifically remember I updated my log title too. Maybe u can check the audit log yourself.

[Rice]

Also just to be clear

I know I am good looking.

I know height won't stop me from my goals.

I am not depressed.

I am not even having a bad day. I am just reviewing this right now because I travel tomorrow and won't be going out tonight.

I put that in the title for people who don't know who I am yet to read over this. Simply because those who have actually followed my journey haven't been able to pinpoint what is wrong with my profile so I was hoping for a fresh eye on things.

I noticed that other members get feedback all the time by complaining a lot. I also noticed that I stopped getting feedback once I stopped complaining. So hence I made a "complaint" thread where I only spent a paragraph or two complaining. The rest of it was me displaying data in a neutral fashion.

[Squilliam]

I understand that you like to gatekeep me from claiming "low smv" status because I am asian. And I agree. I am not low smv. So where are the online dating results then?

Because simply being "not low SMV" isn't enough to achieve good results on online dating. You are achieving some level of results. You went on a date the other night.

Achieving good/amazing results on online is a totally different story. Your profile needs to be well above average in order to do that.

[foducossy42]

Bring back the mirror picture with the hot chicks. Underrated pic.

Your current profile is incredibly posed. You stand around a lot, there is no action, no movement.

Why are you holding a pool stick and looking away? Play the game and have a pic of you playing it. Do you see what I mean? Candid pics are necessary.

Girls want to feel emotions when they view your profile. They want to be drawn into your world. You need to tell a story and bring them into it.

This is not easy. In my opinion try to understand what each picture says about you. Then you can see what the whole profile says about you. Your latest profile has little personality at the moment.

Again, bring back the preselection photo. It’s awesome.

Your text game is weak. Just because your lays have happened when you gave a sexual compliment, doesn’t mean it is a good strategy. Bro, I got laid with the opener “What superpower would you want to have?”. Doesn’t make it a good opener.

No sexual compliments. No compliments at all — you don’t stand out doing that.

[foducossy42]

Bring back the mirror picture with the hot chicks. Underrated pic.

Also, devious trick I just came up with.

FaceApping doesn’t have to be used to make only you hotter!! FaceApp the women to be even hotter and you max out on the preselection. They can be totally unrecognisable by the end of it too because your dates will never meet those women.

Man I wish I had hot female friends to pose with me like that. Super solid pic with great vibes, I love it. Tried hiring a model the other time for a preselection pic and that didn’t work out.

[Rice]

Bring back the mirror picture with the hot chicks. Underrated pic.

Your current profile is incredibly posed. You stand around a lot, there is no action, no movement.

Why are you holding a pool stick and looking away? Play the game and have a pic of you playing it. Do you see what I mean? Candid pics are necessary.

Girls want to feel emotions when they view your profile. They want to be drawn into your world. You need to tell a story and bring them into it.

This is not easy. In my opinion try to understand what each picture says about you. Then you can see what the whole profile says about you. Your latest profile has little personality at the moment.

Again, bring back the preselection photo. It’s awesome.

Your text game is weak. Just because your lays have happened when you gave a sexual compliment, doesn’t mean it is a good strategy. Bro, I got laid with the opener “What superpower would you want to have?”. Doesn’t make it a good opener.

No sexual compliments. No compliments at all — you don’t stand out doing that.

Thanks man, that makes a lot of sense.

I've tried the two girls thing before and it seemed to make things way worse. Maybe because its vibe is a lot different than the rest or its too blurry. Or maybe it just appeals to the male gaze.

Would you say my past profiles are also super dry? I mostly compare poses to old profiles and so didn't see it. But now that you mentioned it, maybe the inclusion of just one group photo made the entire difference. Or is it the subtle differences in facial expression?

Would be helpful to know exactly what to aim for in a future shoot. Since it seems a recurring issue of mine is having no emotion.

I have this one from same shoot of me actually "playing". Wonder what you think about it.

IMG_9032.JPG

edit: heres the girl photo to show blurriness. It was actually completely unplanned and the blonde ended up using it on her profile lol. Unfortunately I am not on good terms with these girls anymore so I can't ask for a sharper version.

IMG_0291 2.jpg

[kratjeuh]

Your photos in general are also way too polished for them to be so posed.

The goal is to do a photoshoot which doesn’t look too much like one, your pics don’t do this and adding the selfie isn’t enough to combat this.

I agree with foducassy that you’re highly in need of a social shot. Every race but white (except if insanely handsome) needs a social proof shit.

I bet girls like you and then scroll through your profile again and think “Would he really be this good looking in person?” and “Hmmm he seems so cool, why doesn’t he have friends, is there something off about him?”

[foducossy42]

I've tried the two girls thing before and it seemed to make things way worse. Maybe because its vibe is a lot different than the rest or its too blurry. Or maybe it just appeals to the male gaze.

Back then your profile was different. I say give it a go. You gotta experiment. It’s a concept called preselection. In theory it should help. But the vibe has to be right. My assessment of that pic is that the vibe is right… but end of the day it’s the results that matter for your specific archetype, geography etc.

Would you say my past profiles are also super dry? I mostly compare poses to old profiles and so didn't see it. But now that you mentioned it, maybe the inclusion of just one group photo made the entire difference. Or is it the subtle differences in facial expression?

Tinder in the past is quite different tbh. I’d advise not reading too much into it. Too much has changed, not just tinder but you and the type/age of girls you’ll be going out with.

One note: I might not lead with a shirtless selfie. Just quite douchey. Might turn girls off.

But your problem seems to be conversion rather than matching. So texting is your bottleneck. One in 32 is really poor. I usually get a commitment to meet (but schedules are busy so doesn’t always happen) about 5-10% of the time by my estimate. Might run the data at some point but my text game has improved by leaps and bounds now so I’ll need to run my text game a bit more to get sufficient samples.

Would be helpful to know exactly what to aim for in a future shoot. Since it seems a recurring issue of mine is having no emotion.

Candid. Different facial expressions every shot (you repeat a lot). Do things don’t just stand around.

You have to be creative with this.

I have this one from same shoot of me actually "playing". Wonder what you think about it.

Better because you’re not alone. But your technique seems poor and the angle is quite boring. Your facial expression is the same as every other picture. And frankly you don’t look like you’re playing, you look like you’re posing. Try to be more immersed. Just relax and play the game and let your photographer do his thing.

Every race but white (except if insanely handsome) needs a social proof shit.

Yeah especially if you’re looking to date white girls. They want to know on a deep instinctual level that white women are comfortable around you.

In theory I really would benefit from a preselection shot. I have none right now because I don’t have those friends — white British girls don’t hang out with brown guys in London.

If anyone knows any ideas for getting a 7 to take a pic with me, please let me know. Not meaning to hijack Rice’s thread though.

[foducossy42]

tinder keeps pushing for verified profiles now. Does verified actually matter more now than it did in say, 2021?

You’re a guy, you don’t really have the luxury imo. You need to be verified.

Especially if your photos look so professionally taken that you could be using an influencer’s pics for a fake profile.

I have been called a catfish before on tinder, and I’m already verified. I had to remind her that I’m verified and to just message me on Instagram.

[foducossy42]

This seems obvious thats its "text game" but I don't see it. My texting has a few steps:
1. Clickbait opener
2. Compliment, sexual if possible (somehow how all my lays been with the compliment: "I like your style, the dress really shows off those curves"
3. talk about hobbies and ask out
4. plan date over text
5. date
For years I have reliably lost about 50% of girls with each step, which means it would take 32 matches on paper to lead to one date. This is exactly what was observed. During November 2022 I just simply didn't get many matches, leading to less dates but the pattern held true.

Nowadays its 50% down to step 3, in which case its a steady drop. My hypothesis is that this is the time when girls give my profile a second look, which clues in that there is something fundamentally off about my profile... That is what I need help with.

Okay now reading again… yes your pictures could be the problem. However I’m not sure. You have 2-4 matches a day automatically. You should have the volume for many more dates than one in a hundred matches.
I am increasingly certain your texting is the primary issue.

You should upload your tinder conversation screenshots here and let us analyse the interactions.

[foducossy42]

edit: heres the girl photo to show blurriness. It was actually completely unplanned and the blonde ended up using it on her profile lol. Unfortunately I am not on good terms with these girls anymore so I can't ask for a sharper version

Try using an AI image upscaler. I haven’t much experience with these. If you find anything good please let us know here what software you used. Probably Photoshop Beta will be the best if they have the feature as they are trialling AI tools.

Faceapp the devil girl she’s got a kinda mid face.

Your facial expression is a bit goofy. Can Faceapp a bit — passion and/or charm filter work well.

I personally think it’s an image worth putting the effort into to making it work. It shows a lot more personality than your other pictures.

[Rice]

@foducossy42 genius.

Tried every free ai photo website I can find. Didn't work. It makes the edges of the face sharper but it is too obviously discolored, and not actually sharp.

But I came across this (https://github.com/TencentARC/GFPGAN) which actually works, except it made the blonde into an old lady...

So I went on faceapp and tried to make her pretty again, as well as faceapped myself and the brunette. Heres the final result:

IMG_9040.JPG

The ai made me have curved eyebrows now. But I think its ok if I leave this photo zoomed out like that so that you can barely see my face.

Since I am now going to be using a nearly 3 year old photo. Do you guys think I should sprinkle in some older photos with black hair?

[Rice]

IMG_9042.jpg

IMG_9041.jpg

Here is texting examples. One is from last year and the other is more recent. I don't really do anything special, thats why my ratio was so "bad" at ~1/30. The girls are just giving me less frame nowadays, usually not even making it past the point where I ask them out.

I guess I do change a little bit of the wording on my messages, but the overall structure hasn't changed. So I would have expected to keep my match:date ratio the same rather than it be less than 1/100 right now.