colgate - gaijin group pickup coaching sesh recap!

[MakingAComeback]

The discussion here was fucking phenomenal, thank you all for sharing bros.

I appreciate there are diff perspectives, ALL ARE VALID AND POWERFUL

When we share we all learn

Thank you so much

I loved Ariel's post, and also the legend ED'S post.

Ultimately where I want to end up is having abundance in my own mindset, and a positive outlook. I am working on it, and because I am working on it, it'll come like everything else.

I was just saying man, when you're down low, it's a different ballgame. The view ain't so pretty down here lol. Looksmaxxing does give you that little affirmation and boost you need when your psyche is a bit weakened from scarcity.

Not to be too rigid. We know what the deal is, we can only be where we are at this moment. That's the journey.

MC

[pancakemouse]

This is a hyper noob question, but what's the best way to text for getting cold approach numbers to meet up? I'll let @pancakemouse comment, but I don't think my "game" is so poor that girls should just ghost no matter what I text. So what remains?

I don't think it's your texting at all. As far as cold approach is concerned, the goal with texting is "don't fuck up". And you aren't fucking up.

I simply think your in-person interactions are not where they need to be to ensure that girls come out on a date with you.

I've been thinking about this a bit recently: In cold approach, like most skill games, there is a lot of nuanced leveling that you don't see when you first start.

As you and I both know, I played a sport at the highest level. I remember a couple years into this sport, I thought I was really good. Then I moved to a place with a lot of world-class players, and I couldn't understand why I was falling short. In my mind, I was every bit as good as the players I was competing against. It took me a couple more years of improvement and exposure to realize that their levels had far surpassed mine when I first played against them — I just wasn't perceptive enough to see the difference.

I believe that the same thing applies to any beginner in cold approach. What you describe as "good interactions" may be good by your yardstick, but to a more experienced observer, the frame is pretty clearly not one that is going to lead to a date, much less sex. Again, leveling: there are many, many different levels of good interaction, ranging from "fun friendly chat" to "30 minute instapull and bang".

For you, it's even harder. You don't have a full reference experience to compare to. Right now, you have some partials, like the car pull titty suck, but without a full reference experience, you can't look back and say "this girl is looking at me like that one girl did" or "the frame I'm setting in this interaction is similar to the one when... " or "this girl is responding to touch like..."

This is why my number one piece of advice to you has been to do everything you can to find a guy or guys who are experts at cold approach that you can just shadow in-person, watch their successful approaches, and ask yourself over and over what they're doing differently from you. Even then, you're not going to be able to imitate this overnight, because your brain will have to learn to "focus" to actually see the nuances of what they're doing, and even there, there's about a dozen layers you'd have to pick apart!

2022 is a rough time for daygame. The pandemic and the rise of apps have made it an order of magnitude tougher to get a girl out on a date. Remember, I had a streak of 70 contacts in Miami with no dates. If it was 2012, you'd probably be getting laid right now. But it's not. We who choose the cold approach life must accept this fact, and it pushes us to work ever harder.

P.S. you may ask, how are other guys running "basic guy daygame" getting girls out on dates so much easier? The answer is usually that they're the girl's type. If a girl likes you immediately, you can run "don't fuck it up" game with short interactions. The rest of us need Game.

At some point I suggest picking up some wine and going back to my place. She's like I don't drink wine, but if you have tea or something that's fine. I probably could have just said, yeah we can see what I have at home and bounced her to my place, but I like looked up the freaking Japanese store that was closed on my phone and was like, shit the store is closed, it's already 7:15pm. She was like, oh it's 7:15? I think it's late, I have to go home. I told her we could hang out for an hour and then I'll bring her back to the mall, but she declined. So I just probed her week and told her we should meet for bubble tea near my place this week. She asked for my Facebook/Instagram, I was like I have Snapchat but don't you have my number? She was like I gave you mine but you didn't text me. So I just shot her my name.

This is a good learning moment. We are both logical guys, and I used to struggle with this myself: pull excuses are not logical. They're an excuse, so they don't have to make sense. Once the girl agrees, bring her home. Women work on emotions, not logic. As long as you are stimulating her emotions, she doesn't care about the logical facts of what is happening.

By the way, did you notice that on both your instadates today, the girls either pulled you or asked to be pulled? Promising.

[colgate]

Weird thought experiment, but I'm gonna bite at this to see if something unfolds.

If I had absolutely zero repercussions, I'd want to literally go up to a girl and makeout with her.

But I can't do that because it's sexual harassment.

The next thing I could do is instantly put my arm over girls and shower them with compliments and then bring her back with me.

But I can't do that because it's also harassment.

I could just shower girls in compliments, because I mostly care about that. But then I like it even more if they act really cute about it. I wish they would just come back with me to my car and listen to music.

But I can't literally just instapull after I open her.

I can try to literally tell her what we're going to do while we talk. I wonder if any girls would be down for that? All I want to do is makeout and escalate on girls and have fun. Is that something I can talk about on approaches and/or dates/instadates? I guess the topic of sex always comes up. Maybe it'd help me filter harder. Am I just scared of being rejected for this? Maybe it'll help me find the girls actually down to fool around. How do you even get the conversation to this point as fast as possible? I don't care about random facts about her life. Sure we can get to know each other but I want to get to the raw and the passionate and the spontaneous. Who cares about what province in China she's from? Even if I can guess it somehow.

It's magical when I isolate a girl in a classroom and makeout with her and then get walked in on. It's fun and crazy for the girl too. I know she's into it, she was all up in my hair. How can I project this energy and confidence of knowing the girl is going to experience something crazy and fun if she rolls with me? How can I confidently escalate the interaction, especially verbally as quickly as possible? How can I get her to trust me, that I'm not going to lock her in a cold basement for ransom. How can I get her to let me lead the interaction and lose control?

Okay I think that thought experiment led me to ask the real questions of how I can improve my game. I just started with what I would like to do in a fantasy world and tried to step towards reality until I think I'm in the vicinity.

I would really appreciate some answers and guidance to my questions.

[pancakemouse]

How do you get to the raw, passionate, and spontaneous? How do you escalate an interaction as quickly as possible? Energy and compliance.

Energy
- Are you sinking into your heart?
- Are you triangulating your gaze?
- Is your tonality low and slow?
- Is your posture upright and confident?
- Are you moving slowly and with intention?
- Is your overt communication cocky and teasing?

Watch:


Listen to the feedback the woman gives. This is how many subtle signs women take into account when determining how sexworthy you are. The only difference between this woman and other is that she knows how to analyze and verbalize them.

Similarly, the only difference between a "PUA" and a "natural" is that the PUA knows how to explain how one creates tension from the male perspective. You are not a natural, thus you must learn this block by block.

(by the way, your energy is nothing like the guy in the video. You're not nervous like he is. But he's slow, and you're fast. Brian Begin would tell you to "sink into your tension")

Compliance
- Is she laughing at your jokes?
- Does she meet your eye contact?
- Is she facing you, or turned away? Is she crossing her legs?
- When you step into the tension, does she back up, or does she embrace it?
- When you ask her to do things, does she comply?

When you have compliance, you "step forward": (touch, verbals, logistics).

When you have non-compliance, you "step back": (withdraw touch, teases).

Seduction is a subtle dance of non-overt communication. The more compliance you have, the more overt you can be with your escalation. The less compliance you have, the less overt you have to be (on the surface, you show her you don't want her, while still subtly flirting).

Think back to the black girl at Santana Row. How was I able to wrap my arms around her lower back and pull her into me within four minutes of meeting her? Compliance.

Approach. She's giggling. Compliance. OK, I can ask her to give me her hand now, with some dumb excuse like "let me test how drunk you are". Now I keep holding her hand. She doesn't let go. Compliance. I run my hands up her arms. She doesn't move back. Compliance. I keep testing compliance, and she keeps passing, all the way until we're embracing. THEN, because I knew you were filming and the set was dead anyway, I went for a big leap which was the makeout, and she pulls away. Non-compliance. Now I pull away as well and quickly agree "yeah, let's get to know each other first". Escalate on compliance, pull away on non-compliance. And then she invites me to accompany her to the bathroom... why? We've known each other for six minutes, but I've built a "bubble" of attraction around us. Even though she denied my big leap, because I pulled back, she's comfortable enough with me to keep the interaction going.

Now, this is a rare case. The girl was drunk, it was late at night, her guard was down.

The Asian girls you typically go for did not grow up in a culture of overt sexuality. Sex is something that was hidden to them, something that they may be ashamed or embarrassed about.

The more shame the girl has around sex, the less overt you can be, and the slooowwwwwer you have to be about it. What played out in that six minute set that night at Santana Row might be extended over multiple hours and multiple dates. But it's the same process, and how overt you can be with your escalation all depends on compliance.

The more compliance you have, the more you can talk about sex. If you don't have much compliance, you might just have to think about sex and talk about what province in China she grew up in. But while you're talking about this, there's this subtle undertone of "I want to fuck you" that you're bringing to your eyes, posture, and tonality.

Bring your energy to the interaction.
And test for compliance, always.
Escalate on compliance, step back on non-compliance.

This is how you win.

[colgate]

Wow this post is a huge unlock, since it directly answers how to handle "thirst" and "pussy beggar mindset". When I don't have any anxiety in a certain situation, it basically turns into greed and I can't control myself, and while there have been times where it absolutely turned the girl on (at least I think so), I've always gotten ghosted after that.

Energy
1. Are you sinking into your heart?
2. Are you triangulating your gaze?
3. Is your tonality low and slow?
4. Is your posture upright and confident?
5. Are you moving slowly and with intention?
6. Is your overt communication cocky and teasing?

1. never thought about it
2. what does this mean
3. working on it, i think it's getting better but still not exactly where it needs to be
4. yes
5. slowly, no. with intention, probably mostly but sometimes i'm indecisive in the moment so probably in those cases it reflects in my movement
6. i think when i get comfortable, yeah. like after i get the initial small talk hump, i start teasing the girl a lot. at least from my view. but definitely could be improved

And I think this is the crux of the post

When you have compliance, you "step forward": (touch, verbals, logistics).
When you have non-compliance, you "step back": (withdraw touch, teases).

I think I've been trying to push through anyway through "noncompliance". I have been leveling back recently and mostly ejecting when I get too much noncompliance, but it's basically needy. I think as I said earlier, once you get over the anxiety, you just become super needy for what you don't have enough of, and it's unattractive to girls and pushes them away.

I just need to learn how to properly back off without ejecting I suppose.

I've also experienced this firsthand, because my mom basically smothers me and all I want to do is push her away. And I have some other friends who are like that with me. I'm pretty sure I'm coming off this way to most girls I interact with as well. And what's crazy is that one chick I ended up declining in college, I basically was pushing away every advance she made towards me because I felt like she always wanted my attention and I just got annoyed.

As you said in another post, Game is just explicitly describing the behavior that naturals do to seduce women. I think I tried avoiding it for the most part because I just wanted to go out and be my authentic self, which is great and all, but ultimately learning some of these tactics would help me have better interactions with more girls more quickly because I haven't "naturally" figured it out (yet). And I don't have an abundance of girls or anything right now, so at least being able to fake the behaviors until it's natural will help (I learned a lot of Japanese by abusing the built-in translator in HelloTalk until I didn't need it anymore).

[Heisenberg]

I wrote along comment for MAC, but it might help you as well: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=573&p=30603#p30603

Conclusion: If you get instant dates but are ghosted afterwards, it is probably because you're too needy.


It is not easy to be non-needy when you're unexperienced and have no abundance. But there are many helpful tricks:
1. Switch your mindset from "impressing her" to "checking if she'd be a good fit for you".
2. Talk slow and from the diaphragm
3. Make sure that you have a good posture
4. Express your hontest opinions. Don't hide them.

[colgate]

Daygame
Tuesday 3/8: ~15 approaches, 2 instadates, 0 pull.

Honestly, I'm not really going to bother mentioning contact exchanges because I want to focus way more on instadates. I've had probably close to 20 instadates in the past 1.5 months and have managed to get the girl either in my car or to my place (or both) 4-5 times. (although I pulled twice from regular dates here).

Compared to having only going on regular dates with 3 girls, and those regular dates took 70+ contacts to get. I especially thought my session on Sunday was excellent and thought I had some solid contacts but they all ghosted.

Additionally, even the approaches @pancakemouse saw and said "that was really good!!!" also ghosted (except one, who agreed to meet for date, then cancelled, then ghosted). So I'm only taking contacts (incidentally) if I think I'm getting the girl to "invest" in meeting up with me for a date and setting plans on the spot, but it's not going to be something I focus on. Because I can get a girl to just give me her phone number, and then nothing happens. And it's pretty annoying to have so many phone numbers and maybe have the sporadic text convo which also goes nowhere moment I pitch meeting up. And then it's the worst when she agrees to meet up but then cancels on the day of. Just a huge headache honestly, when I can instadate instead.

Btw, I saw the Ethiopian chick who ghosted me walking with her friend around the mall while I was sitting down playing poach mode (trash volume, so yeah). She was kind of nervously looking away from me and I just looked at her. She looked at me and I flashed a peace sign and she awkwardly waved and continued walking. Lol.

Instadates
1st instadate
Girl on campus sitting down drinking Jamba Juice. I had actually seen her like 15-20 mins prior, but didn't approach for some reason (I've been playing "sniper mode" on campus so I don't get notorious for approaching girls there). I just indirectly opened with "hey, didn't I see you earlier?" "yeah" and then hit her with the "well, you're actually pretty cute".

Not really sure if this is an "instadate" as much as it was a really long approach, but I sat next to her on the bench and we started chatting. Turns out she wasn't a student either lolllllll. Random physical touches here and there and then I eventually just put my arm over her. Convo was mainly just our background and where we were from, but I worked on talking real slow and having a lot of direct eye contact with her (kind of what @pancakemouse mentioned in previous post, talk about whatever while imagining fucking her).

Maybe after 15-20 minutes, her phone alarm rings, and she's like "oh my parking expired". I told her she should park her car at my place and we should chill there some more. Back and forth over this maybe 5-6x, she was saying how she's a boring person and is done being spontaneous and just wants a structured life now. "u can walk with me to my car tho".

I walk with her maybe 10 steps, and then decide to stop her. I decide to probe some future date logistics but she keeps maybe-ing and idk-ing me. At first I decide to say, well let me grab your number real quick, but she says "idk I don't want to give you my number and then disappoint you...". I told her no pressure, I'm cool with this being the only time we meet. She was like "yeah, I didn't expect anyone to come up to me like that". "Have you been approached before when you were a student here?" "Yeah, a few times actually..."

So I put my hand on her waist and her shoulder and bring her close to me and we lock eyes.
We're never going to see each other again.
oh...oh?
Kiss me.
...only the cheeks...

So I kissed her on the cheeks and tried for the lips but she deflected. "yeah, I can't do that...it's too much...". Then we parted ways.

2nd instadate
Saw plaid shirt cute brunette Chinese chick at the mall. Opened with "the top half of your face is cute". She was stunned at first, but then giggled a lot,.

"I don't know about the bottom half, but we'll just go with the top".

She was on her way to get dumplings. We made some small talk. Then I stopped us from walking and told her, "I want to get dumplings with you". She agrees.

20 minute wait. I had said earlier I came to the mall because I was looking for jeans (I actually was haha). She said do you want to go shopping for your jeans? I was like yeah okay, and she followed me to the store.

She was hyper adorable and always asking if she could do things for me. I told her "u should be my secretary". Probably one of the cutest girls I've met.

At the jeans store, I told her "I need you to take a picture so I can send this to my style consultant." She was like "whaaa" and started giggling for the 46th time since we met and poking me. "I'm serious. I know I've been joking with you a lot but I'm for real. I have a style consultant. This isn't a joke." She took a picture of me wearing the jeans and I sent it to @Radical and showed her, "see, this is my style consultant" and she started giggling more.

At some point she suggested we go into the store the Ethiopian chick works at. I probably should have just said nah, I don't want to go there, but I said okay, and then I was like "some girl I was dating works there actually, it'd be crazy if we ran into her". I think this ticked off her logical brain because then she started lightly probing me "do u date girls at the mall?" I'm like "yes, where else are there girls?"

We ended up not running into Ethiopian chick at the store.

Eventually, our table was ready at the dumpling restaurant. I told her to sit next to me and brought the second set of plates to my side. The waitress was like "oooohhhh", and I had my arm around her waist as we ordered food. Then she went to the bathroom for a hot second.

Sat back next to me, but then 2-3 minutes later asked if she could sit across from me instead cuz she's scared of covid. I was like "you're scared of covid? you're wearing a mask u must be unvaccinated" "omg no nono im vaccinated...." "me too. anyway if you want to sit across that's fine". Turns out she was left-handed so we might have just been bumping elbows, but I think even if she weren't, she probably would have asked to sit across.

Food came and she was serving me a bit. Ate food, and she asked me a lot of questions about me and my life. Just mainly talked about my job and being a minimalist. I also liked looking at her face a lot and she was like "omg....u keep making me laugh by looking at me....".

Split the bill, and then took her hand and we held hands walking around the mall. I just decided to go for the listen to music in car pull. Initially she was like uhh ok, but then got cold feet after a minute. I kinda switched back into my old pushy style for some reason, which was probably a bad idea. I think I just didn't really know what to do. She was like "I want to go to my car...but idk where it is". Basically the next 10+ minutes was us holding hands (sometimes I disengaged, sometimes put arm over her, sometimes over waist, sometimes holding hands) walking around the mall while she probed me on my dating history, and I tried to get her to come to my car. Honestly pretty disastrous from my end.

At some point she was like "I'm way older than you...I don't date younger guys...", I said "you're my 21 year old gf, what are u talking about". She giggled for the 138th time since we met and we went back and forth on the age thing. Finally I was just like "ok, ok, but how old are u?" She was like "guess, it's way older than you think" "37". She giggled like "omg how did you know????" (but she probably would have had that reaction no matter what number I said).

So more arguing about future dating and coming to my car while holding hands and giggling. "when was the last time you dated?" "ummm....before the pandemic" "yeah, pandemic is over, it's time to start a new life".

Eventually we got to one of the exits where she said her car was. We kept arguing about the dating thing and I just said "what's all this about dating anyway? you're like trying to plan us a wedding already?" "omg no....i just...don't want to mess around". Then we walked for a bit and I was like "you don't have a car." "omg??? how did you know????" I tried telling her I could just give her a ride (kind of knowing that it wouldn't work), and she declined.

So I stopped us. Pulled her close into me and put her head on my shoulder while I stroked her hair. I did that for like 30 seconds, but I probably should have done it for longer because there was still way too much crazy energy. Then I brought her face up, and tried to go for the makeout, but she deflected. I pretty much disengaged, said like "we'll never see each other again. just once." and tried 3x but no dice. Eventually I let her go.

Lessons
Okay lots of points I fucked up here.
1. Should have completely cut off the entire branch of going to the store where the Ethiopian chick worked at by just saying "nah let's not go there". Got her thinking way too much about serious dating instead of enjoying the ride. In general, this girl was already quite receptive and bubbly to me and I let it get to my ego and started just mega-flexing on her about my supposed "dating history". If the girl clearly already likes me, I need to freaking chill with that shit and actually escalate the interaction instead.
2. Should have baby stepped the car pull like I usually do with listening to music on my phone. I've pulled to my car no resistance 3/3 times this way, while I'm like 0/10+ direct from the mall. It's just too much of a jump to go from mall to random dude's car with no other context. I think I didn't do it because it was already like 9pm, and I was being impatient. I also thought maybe the fact we just went on a freaking dinner instadate and already holding hands was probably good enough, but I guess not. i misjudged the compliance i had i guess. ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
3. Behavior once she wouldn't car pull just felt like I was getting needier and needier. Kind of felt like I lost control of the interaction. Don't really know where I should have ended this interaction honestly. But I liked stroking her hair at the end lol....
4. When we were standing outside, should have let us close hug in silence for waaaaaay longer than 30 seconds. I'm too fast, like a puppy dog, and it gets me incessantly deflected on escalation. Need to sit in escalation tension way more.

[colgate]

I wrote this up in a random lucid moment I had in bed. It's mainly me talking with myself, and very relevant to that black pill approach session I had on Saturday. I wish the below piece existed on that day because it would have helped me a lot.

I think this piece will continue to help me if I read it over and over because I've been getting caught up in chalking things up purely on looks, and having many moments of sinking feelings and latent defeat due to it, despite the veritable progress and new experiences I have had so far.

Additionally, there are many things outside of looks which are far more difficult to admit that you have to change, because it requires changing who you are, or maybe those changes are more complex. It's easier to just say "oh that guy looks better" and give up/become complacent.

Anyway, here it is.


Using looks as a shield for your own incompetence
Comparing your situation in life to others' based on your physical appearance is a common, but simpleton mindset.

Essentially, it comes down to "something about my life sucks compared to these other people's because they look better than I do".

And this isn't entirely false. We don't live in a magical fairy tale world where everyone is judged solely on how "good" their character is. People might claim that's what they do, but deep down it's not the case.

Yes, some people will naturally look better than others. Not everyone starts with an equal base. Life isn't fair that way, but if you're an adult you should have already come to terms with this fact.

But where some people get this wrong is that they believe their own looks are *wholly* immutable.

When you have an attitude of giving up on life because you believe your looks are subpar, it holds an air of not only laziness but also entitlement.

Lazy because you've decided you don't need to make any of the simple and immediate changes to your style and grooming, while also not taking care of your fitness and diet for longer term health.

Entitled because you believe that the world should be handed to you just because you exist and you don't need to make changes. In other words, you might observe certain people getting whatever they want and living a life that seems handed to them on a silver platter just because they're attractive. Guess what, you're probably entirely correct. So what are you going to do about it? You can either try your best anyway or take the black pill and die. Many people don't want to try in the first place though.

Your body and fitness can be seen as a direct reflection of your own work ethic and how much you're *really* trying to live your best life. Are you fat and/or weak? Are you more average? Are you strong? Someone who's as fit as possible is more likely to also excel in other areas of their life, because others can see how they've taken care of their body. An elite body is immediately associated with elite wealth and an elite lifestyle for example. Meanwhile, a fat slob or a skinny twig is probably poor and hides themselves in a room all day, contributing nothing to society. What reason does anyone have to associate with them?

Looks are not just a superficial thing, so stop having the mindset that being judged for it is. You have all the power to bring yourself up to an elite body, no one is stopping you. If you can do that, people will automatically treat you better because they will extrapolate that you likely also have an elite lifestyle.

Using looks as an excuse for low success in your life is also a shield for your own incompetence. By saying your looks are the problem, you can conveniently drop other issues you might have, because you can delude yourself into believing that "even if I fix my other problems, it won't matter because my looks will always hinder me". This is some satisfying mental masturbation, but have you really fixed your other issues? Are you even aware of your other issues? Come back to me if you're truly a charismatic go-getter but you're still having major hurdles due to your looks. I highly doubt you'll be living a dreary life if you actually thought about and worked on your other issues, even if you don't end up directly focusing on improving your looks.

And if you still think you're such a great person, and looks are really your bottleneck, then why aren't you close to your natural potential in looks yet? There's literally no reason not to max out your own looks. Unless you're lazy and a quitter and believe you're not worth existing and having the life you want. Which in that case, go ahead and complain about how your looks are stopping you from doing anything, wither away, and die in depression, because you couldn't get over your own physical appearance.

[colgate]

So in my last approach log, I wrote this.

Honestly, I'm not really going to bother mentioning contact exchanges because I want to focus way more on instadates. I've had probably close to 20 instadates in the past 1.5 months and have managed to get the girl either in my car or to my place (or both) 4-5 times. (although I pulled twice from regular dates here).

Compared to having only going on regular dates with 3 girls, and those regular dates took 70+ contacts to get. I especially thought my session on Sunday was excellent and thought I had some solid contacts but they all ghosted.

Additionally, even the approaches @pancakemouse saw and said "that was really good!!!" also ghosted (except one, who agreed to meet for date, then cancelled, then ghosted). So I'm only taking contacts (incidentally) if I think I'm getting the girl to "invest" in meeting up with me for a date and setting plans on the spot, but it's not going to be something I focus on. Because I can get a girl to just give me her phone number, and then nothing happens. And it's pretty annoying to have so many phone numbers and maybe have the sporadic text convo which also goes nowhere moment I pitch meeting up. And then it's the worst when she agrees to meet up but then cancels on the day of. Just a huge headache honestly, when I can instadate instead.

While this is all true, I've actually realized it leads down a dark path. Which I'm about to explain, and then I'll talk about what I'm going to do going forward.

Daygame
Wednesday 3/9: 7 approaches, 1 instadate, 0 pull.
Thursday 3/10: ~20 approaches, 0 instadates.

I went out super late on Wednesday because I had SHIT! time management.

But regardless, I noticed a very outcome-oriented and defeatist trend in my past 2 sessions. No longer was I approaching just girls I found attractive, but I pared the scope down to "girls I think will instadate". So obviously solo girls, but even then I wasn't super driven. I felt like I was deliberately not approaching girls who were walking fast, into stores, etc. Essentially I was trying to (incorrectly) optimize for whom I thought would be most likely to instadate.

What I noticed is that I felt drained. I felt way less motivated to approach in the first place, because I was artificially limiting myself. I wasn't approaching honestly, like I usually do. Usually I just approach whomever is attractive, regardless of the situation. And then I calibrate to the situation accordingly and try to veer it towards an instadate if possible, otherwise I try to have a good interaction with the girl and maybe her friends.

But this takes a dark turn, because every time I stopped myself from approaching a certain girl, the justification that "she's not going to meet up with you, why bother" would come up in my head. Essentially, while I do think "getting the girl's number" means mostly jack shit, I overshot it as in "just getting her contact is like being rejected, because she's going to ghost you anyway". And it's true that you get ghosted majority of the time.

Thinking this way is extremely unhealthy because it puts the belief in your head that no girl would want to meet up with you in the future, so getting her to instadate is all you got. While I think it's way easier to get an instadate and I can get a lot of cool experiences that way, I need to still pick up contacts when I can instead of acting totally defeatist about them.

And it's certainly not the case that zero girls want to meet up with me. I've gone on arranged dates with 3 girls in the past 30 days. Which is way more than zero. And way more than I ever had in my whole life up until I started approaching (0 dates). Just because the ratio is something like 3 dates/70-80 contacts doesn't mean I should stop picking up contacts (by the way, I did pick up around 3 or 4 contacts in my past 2 sessions, but I just tried to make it incidental). I've had approach sessions where I'd pick up 3 contacts over ~70 approaches. But that didn't stop me from approaching, I just continued. And likewise, contacts->dates is similar. Remember when I had a week packed with dates in November over only around 40-50 contacts? I guess it was hard for me to see the contact->date wave play out since the duration of time is much longer than approach->contact waves.

And I wonder how many guys even go on 3 dates in a month? That's not great or anything, but I think it's better than the average guy. It's something I ought to be grateful for, not depressed about.

So going forward, still going to focus primarily on instadates. But I mainly need to figure out how I can get the girl to invest in me during the approach so it's more likely the contact means something. And I shouldn't avoid approaching girls just because I think it's only going to lead to a contact exchange. Basically mainly instadates but keep arranged dates on the backburner and don't forget about them.

[MakingAComeback]

Great work as ever

Lots for me to read over the weekend. Will reply properly on Sunday

When you go all the way in and are living this it can fuck with your head as you know man. This thing of approaching girls and also going on dates just knowing they will ghost after, man I can't help but relate. Its not healthy.

I texted my Dad last night and he didn't reply and part of me was like "WHAT is my Dad ghosting me" LMAO

At that point I knew I needed to cool off for a few hours

MAC

[Rice]

Man, you are an inspiration! My history and stats are pretty similar to yours, so its a reminder I got no excuses.

[Toast]

Thinking this way is extremely unhealthy because it puts the belief in your head that no girl would want to meet up with you in the future, so getting her to instadate is all you got. While I think it's way easier to get an instadate and I can get a lot of cool experiences that way, I need to still pick up contacts when I can instead of acting totally defeatist about them.

I think this is a great insight.

Myself, @Manganiello and @Crisis_Overcomer Have somewhat steered away from Lord Voldemort and his style of approach. Although instadates can produce outcomes, you definitely should still be taking all the contacts you can. Regardless of whether or not the girl will meet up. Its like shooting ur self in the foot and not using all the sources available to get girls. Although the % of girls who ghost is extremely high via contacts, there is still the opportunity to meet up.

My approach history is limited, but I had success focusing solely on contacts. I think I was like 1/150 or so with sexual outcomes all from contacts. I got my current plate by a contact. She said she was unavailable for one month and then I texted her a month later and she came over and gave me a BJ on the first date within half an hour of meeting. Then came back 3 days later to hook up.

You are close with Troy and he's verified as someone who does low volume, focuses on better conversations, building more rapport, and getting contacts and instadates. So viewing his style of approach and seeing success shows that there are many ways to approach and have success. Personally I think u should continue learning from troy. @Manganiello went like 1/700 in Calgary with dates following Voldemort's style. Then he switched it up to troy style and got a date after 30 approaches or contacts or whatever.

[MakingAComeback]

Love how we are having a collective group therapy session detoxing from Lord Voldermort's teachings

That stuff legit fucked with my head and made me more jaded, not because of his teachings per se, but the culture and the dynamics of that group chat. Psychopathic shit. It made me angrier at my bullshit than I already was, which is not good, LMAO

MAC

[colgate]

So one roadblock I've repeatedly run into is every time I reach some "milestone", I get a bit lazy and think I'm going to get that result so easily again, without putting as much effort.

This especially happens when I feel like I'm able to do something "kind of consistently". I'm like okay, I can shut my brain off, and not try as hard.

For example, back in Austin, after I had that week packed with dates, I noticed I was getting lazy with my interactions again, because I thought I could just shut off and go 100% on autopilot: viewtopic.php?p=24623#p24623

Similarly, I've felt over my past few sessions, I've been generally lazy and low-energy because I somehow feel "entitled" to get a girl to agree to an instadate, hang out, and then pull to my car/house, simply because I've done it 4-5 times in the past 30 days.

But there's no entitlement. Every girl you approach starts from a clean slate. As far as each individual approach goes, it's no different than as if it were the first approach you've ever done. You can't just rely on "oh well, this other girl, you know I brought her back to my place after a few hours of meeting and we fooled around, so this girl should be the same", no it doesn't work that way. If you just default to going on pure autopilot, you're guaranteed to just get unilaterally rejected, and those rejections from your own poor performance.

That's why it's important to always bring your A game, on each approach. And if you're not bringing your A game, figure out how to bring your A game. For me, if I do a bunch of approaches in a row, even knowing that they're going to suck, it ends up lifting my spirits and I get back up to speed. So I need to quit this low-volume sniper mode shit, especially in the mall.

And recognize that with approach, even if you've brought your A game, you're still going to have to go through the girls ignoring, the instant deflections, the brief conversations full of excuses, the contact exchanges that ghost, the arranged dates who cancel, the instadates who don't pull, the pulls that refuse to let you escalate. It's part of the process and it's unavoidable. But you handle those with stride and you'll hit the jackpot. There's no entitlement to having outcomes you want, no matter how much you've improved.

[Toast]

And recognize that with approach, even if you've brought your A game, you're still going to have to go through the girls ignoring, the instant deflections, the brief conversations full of excuses, the contact exchanges that ghost, the arranged dates who cancel, the instadates who don't pull, the pulls that refuse to let you escalate. It's part of the process and it's unavoidable. But you handle those with stride and you'll hit the jackpot. There's no entitlement to having outcomes you want, no matter how much you've improved.

Straight up facts right here