Do you think the full-time PUA/hook up phase is worth it???

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Zealhouse07
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Name: Oscar
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:41 pm

I’m torn right now between working on my life mission/purpose and going through a pick up/party lifestyle full time.

It was and is important for me to be able to express myself without inhibition to hot women I'm attracted to and not sound like a buffoon/be awkward. I tried to get that out of my system by sleeping/partying around in college and though was moderately successful, wasn’t satisfied. I can’t confidently go out to a bar at night or alone during the day and hit on women effectively (nor have I tried [YET!]).

The business I am pursuing right now is incredibly meaningful to me and equivalent to my “life purpose” but I feel like I would do it a disservice if every fiber of my being is not 100% invested to it. They say focus on the few, not the many, and I believe that focus is a superpower. He who chases two rabbits, catches none. Whatever you do, you have to be all in, in my opinion.

I don’t want to focus on women forever, but just for 1 – 2 years to get it out of my system and be able to say I had my fun, and develop myself personally. I don’t think I can do this later because it will be awkward when I’m in my late 20’s when I have more to lose, I'll be super busy, and also when I’m a business executive and have to protect my image/reputation.

What do I mean by “pick up” phase? I want to get rid of my approach/social anxiety via the approach anxiety program and going out and challenging myself to hit on women. I want to have a rotation or be friends with benefits with beautiful women and fulfill my sexual bucket list. I want to go on fun casual dates. I want to be able to go out 2/3 times a week and go home with at least 1 girl. I think this will also benefit me personally because it will give me immeasurable confidence, character growth, social skills, charisma, etc. There are so many accounts of guys who go through the AA program and feel like they are on top of the world and can do whatever the fuck they want. Another thought is that I want to have a good time before I sacrifice my personal comforts, time, and energy towards my life mission.

I wouldn't devote 24/7 to the pick up phase, I would still work a little to pay the bills.

On the other hand, I don’t know if the “pick up” phase is even worth pursing/meaningful, or if I should even want it. There’s always the risk of catching an STD. I also sometimes feel immature for wanting this and not “taking my life seriously” in the career/business sphere (though, like I said, I would work if I went through a “pick up” phase).

I always follow the Jeff Bezos regret minimization paradigm when I make decisions – I refuse to die with regret - but I’m not sure if I will regret not going through the “pick up” phase or just continuing with my business. Will I regret pursuing women, and not excellence? Or will I regret pursuing excellence too early and not women?

Maybe I’m also blinded to other options I’m not seeing, or one/many of the above beliefs and assumptions are wrong.
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MakingAComeback
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:33 pm

GREAT QUESTION. Great strategic thinking on you and I respect your long term focus here. This is great to see. So, let me chime in, as you're kind of where I was a while ago when I was encouraged by a friend to go 'all in' on biz, but was conflicted in myself, and then had a bunch of dudes from the forum basically step in and stop me from making the biggest mistake of my life....

My truth to you: handle your shit with women as a priority, because you will regret this HEAVY. You can succeed in every domain of life through hard work, put 80-100hrs a week of energy into something for 2 years and you can be successful. But that level of focus will need to be preceded by your needs as a man truly being met and you knowing you did yourself proud as a man.

Something I will share with you is when I was 29, I was going about my day at work, and then I realised I was turning 30 that year and I was still a virgin, had never been on a date, and then a thought flashed to my mind: "oh no man, I've messed up my life, this was my shot and I blew it man. I am never going to find a girl and I am going to die alone". I was on my lunch break, going for my daily walk to get sun and exercise, and I totally panicked. I began to dry heave then and there. This was like a mental breakdown, thankfully there weren't many around. I vomitted right there and then. I briskly walked to a bathroom and splashed my face with cold water. Vomitted again. I was in sheer panic and shock the whole day and barely said a word to anyone, which is very unlike me. This was one of the worst feelings I have ever known, dude. And I would not wish it on anyone.

If you have unmet needs, they WILL NEVER GO AWAY.

They will get worse, stronger and stronger, until they begin to truly haunt you. And in my case, they surfaced in a terrifying way.

But from there, I got the help I needed. Joined the forum and got coaching with Andy. I am fighting with everything I have and I went all in dude. I am now healing.

Ultimately, it's your call, and you need to decide for yourself. I am an extreme case, clearly, but you can still take something from what I have shared.

MAC
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pancakemouse
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:54 pm

Yes. I am doing this right now for one year, going out 6+ days a week both day and night. I am six weeks in and don't regret it. However, I will say that I'm much older than you and still found the time mid-career to do this.

By the end I will have assembled enough knowledge that I can coast for the rest of my life.

P.S. it's really hard to catch an STD: https://markmanson.net/std-guide
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MakingAComeback
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:57 pm

pancakemouse wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:54 pm
Yes. I am doing this right now for one year, going out 6+ days a week both day and night. I am six weeks in and don't regret it. However, I will say that I'm much older than you and still found the time mid-career to do this.

By the end I will have assembled enough knowledge that I can coast for the rest of my life.

P.S. it's really hard to catch an STD: https://markmanson.net/std-guide
Oh sheeeeeeeet I'm week 6 of my own project too man. Hell yeah. I'm out 5 x in the day, 2 x at night, and am pushing online dating quite hard too.

I will also say, if you have mega AA like I do, going all in is kinda necessary.

OP, I am working 20hrs a week and doing this btw. 2hrs a day of work and the rest on your goals is doable.

MAC
GOALS 2021: ALL ACHIEVED
GOALS 2022:
(1) 0 to 10 Lifetime Lays (Current Status: 6/10)
(2) Beat AA
(3) Body Transformation: Ripped Abs & Elite Build

My Progress Log: Outworking God's Plan - My Relentless Journey

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Zealhouse07
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:04 pm

"that level of focus will need to be preceded by your needs as a man truly being met and you knowing you did yourself proud as a man."

This resonated the most with me. It is my greatest fear: that I will have some deep regret in my 30s or 40s eating away at me subconsciously if I don't handle this shit NOW.

Being good with women was something that was always important to me. When I listen to my subconscious and random thoughts, they gravitate towards this, and its obviously important enough to me to make a whole post about it and talk about with other close male friends.

Is pursuing women something that is actually meaningful or have we been programmed with shitty values and standards for what it means to "be a man"? Or has society repressed this totally honest and innate desire that most (maybe only some, I would be included) men have but are discouraged from pursing, being labeled as "scumbags", "assholes", "meaningless", "fuckboys", etc.

I appreciate your candor and your story and for helping me in making this big decision, glad your in a better place now, thanks a lot man.
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SpongeBob
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:40 pm

I'll chime in as well. I'm also starting my 30s without having my dating/sex life sorted out. I do regret not having dedicated 100% for a couple of years for this in my 20s so that I'd be good by the time I'm 30, and just ready to give 100% to building a business or a long term relationship without having the back thoughts of having underperformed with women and so not being sure if I'm staying with the woman by fear of being alone or because I genuinely wants her.

There's an article by Andy that says that getting laid will make you a better person, and while I haven't walked the walk in that regard, I can see how it can be true. As you said, you're plagued with those random thoughts and believe me, trying to get rid of them without having your needs met is, in my opinion, not possible. You can quiet them down, but they'll resurface at some point or another. And the later they jump back, the harder it'll hit.

You're 23, this is very young. A couple of year is still nothing for you, by the end you'll be 25-26-27 (depending of how long you want it to last), which is still very young to give 100% to your life mission.

I'd add some caveat though. For me, in order for these 2 years to be absolutely beneficials, they need to be pursued the right way. That means no trying to take shortcuts and to try to sleep with women at any cost. What I mean by that is that it's a process that should make you grow, not turn you into a lying, amoral piece of shit (not that you gave me the impression that's the road you want to take, just giving a bit more of my thought process).
Zealhouse07 wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:41 pm
I always follow the Jeff Bezos regret minimization paradigm when I make decisions – I refuse to die with regret - but I’m not sure if I will regret not going through the “pick up” phase or just continuing with my business. Will I regret pursuing women, and not excellence? Or will I regret pursuing excellence too early and not women?
Well, as you said, when you get on the path of your life mission, it'll be for life. You can go full on dating for 2-3 years, then full on life mission (where you'll also easily be able to have a fulfilling dating/sex life or an amazing partner if that's what you want) but I'm not sure you can do the opposite. And you never know, maybe you'll do one year of dating and will have enough because you'll have plenty of sex already (judging from your picture, you have a nice physique, look handsome -no homo- so you have a very good starting point there).

Anyway, just my 2 cents here
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Holden
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:43 pm

I started reading PUA stuff when I was 15. That decision led to me:
  • hitting the gym
  • going to a university far away from home to force myself to build social skills & not rely on high school friends
  • take care of my appearance and style
  • getting a part-time sales job as a student, going door-to-door
  • practicing (and become quite good at) public speaking
These things had their own butterfly effect-like consequences. And it all started with the conscious decision I made to try and get good with women.

Now I know I can get laid by being an intrinsically attractive person, not because I have a lot of money (I don't) or because I have a prestigious job.

I plan on making a lot of money. I want to be good with women before I make a ton of cash. Otherwise there will always be that voice saying "they like you for your money, not for you as a person." That seems like hell to me. Women before money always made intuitive sense to me.
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MakingAComeback
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:45 pm

I think as humans we are built for connection. The most important thing to people on their deathbed is the relationships they have had, friends, family, the lot. People matter to us a lot. Belonging to the tribe. It's hard wired into us.

Society can repress a lot, yes, family can, religion, the media, we're influenced by a whole lot.

But I would contend that connection to other humans is actually deeply meaningful, and always, always will be. It's a core component of our species. He who is cast out from the tribe will perish. We deeply want to belong and replicate our genetic material.

Conversely, not belonging, not having your needs met, can actually kill you. Isolation and loneliness can actually make you drop dead. It hurts us to the core of our biology.

Plenty of people deal with some sort of guilt about prioritising their needs. I won't hear this bullshit for a second. Know that I am an example of a dude who really did grind it out for 12 years man, went to a relatively elite Uni, worked my ass off in jobs, tried to be the best I could be. But because I was hopeless with the ladies, it drove me to some freakin dark places. When there is a yearning deep inside, it will never go away. There's no question about it: if a man has a deep yearning inside him, it must be explored. Fuck the rest. I am also deeply motivated to succeed financially, but that will come when I have handled by shit with women.

Becoming successful with women, especially from ground 0, can be insanely difficult and does require a guy to get his shit together in ways that are quite impressive. You will be a rock solid dude by the end of your process that's for sure. For anyone who may think this is some frivolous bullshit, they may need to check the logs of guys who are deep into this shit. It is akin to breaking yourself down to your rawest elements and building yourself back up again.

MAC
GOALS 2021: ALL ACHIEVED
GOALS 2022:
(1) 0 to 10 Lifetime Lays (Current Status: 6/10)
(2) Beat AA
(3) Body Transformation: Ripped Abs & Elite Build

My Progress Log: Outworking God's Plan - My Relentless Journey

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colgate
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:24 pm

200%. There's no better psychologist or therapy that shoves deep psychological issues in your face and forces you to handle them immediately as introducing yourself to women with the intent of fucking them.
Zealhouse07 wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:41 pm
I also sometimes feel immature for wanting this and not “taking my life seriously” in the career/business sphere (though, like I said, I would work if I went through a “pick up” phase).
Trust me, this isn't just pure fun, you have to take it seriously. Yeah the rewards are fun and incentivize you to keep approaching, but the inner work that ends up happening as you reflect on your approaches literally changes you as a person. Additionally as @MakingAComeback has said, if you choose to toss this under the rug to focus on your "career", guess what, you won't be able to truly focus on your career and other life goals and it'll eat at you for the rest of your life. Many people will tell you to not worry about girls because either they care too much about what others think of them to handle it, or they've already figured it out/are naturals so it just seems like fun. But if you're dissatisfied sexually, it will permeate through the rest of your outward behavior, interactions with other people, and life decisions in a negative way.
Last edited by colgate on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KillYourInnerLoser
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:26 pm

I’m torn right now between working on my life mission/purpose and going through a pick up/party lifestyle full time.
Why can't you do both? Getting laid should TIE INTO your life purpose and be part of it. You're not just getting pussy for no reason. You're getting pussy in order to become a better man.

https://killyourinnerloser.com/getting- ... etter-man/

There’s always the risk of catching an STD.
https://theinnerwinnershow.com/149/

https://markmanson.net/std-guide
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NewFoundResolve
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creepo
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Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:58 am

Another reason: If you want a good wife in the future..
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    HomelessBob
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    Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:14 am

    Nothing wrong with it, but the argument for not doing so:

    Law of diminishing returns.

    If I want to learn guitar I'll learn far more efficiently practicing 15 minutes a day than ignoring that goal for a year then trying to cram in as much practice as I can in a few weeks.

    I would say whatever you decide time management should be one of the first skills you pick up.
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    MakingAComeback
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    Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:18 am

    GOD DAMN that article by Andy was killer.

    I wound down last night and read that twice through.

    Sometimes I forget about the journey Andy went on, and hell it was one hell of a journey man. Jeez.
    GOALS 2021: ALL ACHIEVED
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    Zealhouse07
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    Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:46 pm

    So here's my thoughts after reading your replies:

    TL;DR the debate I'm having with myself is whether to do this full time and putting my main business venture on hold.

    Not worried so much about the risk of catching an STD. I would do everything necessary to protect myself, didn't even really mean to put that there, just forgot to take it out.

    As @colgate and @Holden have mentioned, I agree that getting really good with women can make you into a better man and its not just wasting time. In order to be attractive to high quality women, you must inevitably have your shit together and develop yourself personally. Like @MakingAComeback the proof is in the pudding. You have to "take your life seriously" to do this, in other words.

    @MakingAComeback makes a good point, as long as we're doing this shit ethically, fuck what the normies think. At least we're being honest about what we truly want. Just don't pursue meaningless sex or lie or be a scumbag.

    Really the crux of this whole conversation is in @KillYourInnerLoser question:

    "Why can't you do both? Getting laid should TIE INTO your life purpose and be part of it."

    Can be read in two ways, so I'll put them both but correct me on which one is correct Andy:

    1: I think I am not pursing my "life purpose" by pursuing women
    2: Why can't I both pursue my business venture and pursue women simultaneously (no need to abandon the business venture to do a full time chase girls period)

    So with what I wrote in the 4th paragraph, I don't disagree with interpretation 1. Getting good with women means enhancing yourself overall and that can easily bleed into other areas of your life. The quagmire really is with interpretation 2, and the concerns I am having:

    a) I fear I just won't have time to pursue women and will have to dedicate all my time, energy, and focus to my business (debatable)
    b) I fear having my reputation smeared (debatable)
    c) I fear regretting not doing a full time PUA/hook up phase (unsure)

    The saving grace here, however, is if a) is wrong and that I can pursue my business venture, and then leverage the status I get from being a badass business exec 8-) , which will arguably lead to more high quality women and less effort to get them, on my part. I take it women throw themselves at star bball players and businessmen, for instance.

    The risk is what @Holden says "I want to be good with women before I make a ton of cash. Otherwise there will always be that voice saying 'they like you for your money, not for you as a person.'". Have you seen the movie coming 2 America? (Spoiler alert) Eddie murphy is an African prince but pretends to be a poor person to court a woman who loves him for who he is (and does this successfully). I could do that lol, pretend to be a bum and do pickup relying on my game to see the girls who like me for who I am and not my money.

    Thanks everyone! Looking forward to your thoughts.
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