Yg’s Progress Log - Social Circle Advice

[Yggdrasil13]

I’ve returned. Sorry for disappearing, I was going through a lot lol. I will summarize what I’ve been up to, if anyone is curious. Skip the next 3 paragraphs if not.

So I wound up getting comfortable in the relationship and losing some of my drive. I was still doing pretty good though until I hurt my arm working out and got laid off from work . Kind of spiraled after that and gained some weight. It was a tough time period, but the sun has shone once again, my arm has healed and I got another job. I also ended my relationship which wound up being a disaster. Probably shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place, but you live and you learn I guess. I could write a whole post on everything I did wrong there.

FWIW in-spite of all the setbacks I think I made great progress last year. Went from 3 to 8 lifetime lays in 2 months (3 cute, 2 meh) OLD was a game changer, God bless Andy for making that Tinder guide.

Anyway, I need to drop the weight I gained before I start dating again, which I’m honestly fine with. I could use a break and I’m a beast at losing weight anyway. It’s just a matter of time.

But in the meantime I want to try and focus on expanding my social circle and that’s what I want advice on. Not even to get laid, just for myself. Honestly realized I was way too reliant on my ex-gf to meet my social needs and most of my social life before meeting her was night gaming with friends, which I am completely sick of.

Right now, I have a lot of acquaintances I see from time to time but not a ton of close friends. I work as a software engineer, mostly remotely, so can’t meet people there. I have some places I do meet people, mostly rec kickball, but I’m open to suggestions. But even when I do meet people I need advice on how to make friends/connections.

For instance, last weekend my friend invited my to a party but I didn’t know anyone there. I was able to converse well enough, but it felt like no one wanted to talk to me tbh. I could see people scanning the room. I did get in a few conversations about software engineering from two guys who were also engineers, but no real connection formed. Anyway I don’t think I stood out in a negative way at all, but it wasn’t that much fun and I didn’t make any connections. I put myself out there but didn’t really make much progress.

Any advice on that specific situation or generally where and how to form friendships/make connections? Thanks.

[Bman]

Just like everything else in life, if you want to make friends, YOU have to make it happen.

If you want to meet someone, you have to go talk to them. If you want some people to get together, you have to handle logistics and invite everyone. If you want to form a deeper friendship, you have to invite them to spend more time together and reveal more of yourself to them first.

Unfortunately, school crammed a bunch of kids together into a shared experience so it ended feeling like making friends just happens. In real life though, you have to make it happen. Sounds simple, but this really changed my social life when I realized this.

But it's even the smaller actions that change this. You mentioned that you felt no one wanted to talk to you. Well, are you carrying yourself like someone who is fun to talk to? People talk to me a lot (even when I'd rather they not). I smile. I look people in the eye. I give a head nod to almost anyone I make eye contact with, even homeless people. I hold my body language in an open stance, not covering my chest. I keep my hands out of my pockets.

As you meet people, you also need to decide what level of friendship you want to have with them, which will tell you how much effort you're going to put into them. I like this simple graphic:

Mountain1.jpg

Strangers: Present a friendly demeanor. It helps to have a mindset that you live in friendly universe as opposed to a hostile one. When one starts a conversation with you, take just a few moments to talk to them. I promise you have 30 seconds to spare.

Acquaintances: Say hello, tell them have a good day, acknowledge their existence. You may think these are superficial relationships, but they may mean the world to someone else. There is a Mexican man in my apt complex. For a year we would wave at each other in the mornings and say good morning. A few months ago while I was putting stuff in my van, he came over to me and gave me a full bottle of tequila. He said thank you for being his friend and told me his name. He introduced me to his brother who was with him and his brother gave me shots glasses that he had boughten me. And all I did was be friendly each morning.

Tier 3: These are the people that you interact with at places where you both have a similar interest or intention. You're not inviting each other out to places, but you vibe when you end up at the same place or event. Most often these are your hobby groups, your party friends, your work friends, and the such. These people you may reveal more of yourself to, but generally are not sharing your life story with. You control how many of these people you meet by going to more social gatherings, meetups, or starting your own. You control how many people you meet AT that gathering by how much you actively move around the room and engage people. Only way you're getting people to just come to you is if you are the leader of the social gathering.

What happens to most people is they stay right here. They never start converting the people they meet here into Tier 2 or Tier 1. Why? Because it takes work. Actively engaging with someone and consistently getting things on the calendar.

Tier 2: These are the people you invite out on a consistent basis. You share quite a bit about your life with them, but maybe not your deepest insecurities. You have also probably shared some tough experiences with them or you at least have respect for on another based on similar experiences. When you're interacting with Tier 3 people, look for the people you want to have around you more. To convert them to Tier 2, actively invite them out to outings other than the one you two met at, or invite them to your place for a bbq, or whatever. Point is, you're actively investing time into this person. Obviously this means you can only have so many of these kinds of people. Over time, the bond will deepen.

Tier 1: The ride or die crew. The people you have shared the highest highs and lowest lows of your journey with. You create Tier 1 friends through extended time together and deep revealing of yourself to Tier 2 friends. The men's group that I have led for several years started all with guys who were once just Tier 3 guys. I met a couple through an entrepreneur course I took. Met another on a plane flight from a conference. Met one through my ex-wife's real estate firm. One lived in my neighborhood as a kid. Each one of them I noticed traits or values that I wanted around me, so I started bringing us together consistently. These guys probably know more about me than even my ex-wife does.

You: Everything starts with you, my friend.

[Yggdrasil13]

Thanks, I went to see a band play with my friend this weekend, and met some new people that they brought along. I tried being more open/friendly and feel like I got a more positive reaction. Tried the open stance stuff too and it seemed to make some improvement. Wound up swapping numbers with my friend’s friend.

Anyway @Bman if I can ask further questions.

1. What do I do with the number? I felt like we got along well enough, maybe there’s some potential there for a tier 2. Idk how to follow up though, or if following up is even appropriate.

2. I feel like I go places and meet people and make some connections. Most of them wind up staying tier 3 or like a a tier 2.5 where we do invite each other out and hang out but there’s not a tremendous amount of closeness there and we don’t hang out that much. I guess what I’m looking for is like a close group of friends. So how do you form individual connections into a friend group? Or better, be accepted into somebody else’s friend group?

3. I have some things I do where I meet people, but what are some suggestions you have of where to meet them?

4. How to convert women into friends? One of my friends brought a female friend along, who I wasn’t interested in banging, but we got along well enough. Don’t know how to convert that into anything though since asking for a number is so charged lol.

5. How to be less afraid of rejection? Might seem like a non-sequitur, but honestly I think a lot of my issues stem from a big fear of rejection, and more specifically ridicule. It’s why I am so rarely pro-active. I don’t want to accidentally do something socially “wrong.” So I only do pretty conservative things for the most part.

[Bman]

further questions

I'm going to answer these not in the order asked, but in the order of importance:

5. Almost all the other questions get answered if you get over the fear of being rejected or ridiculed. At some point you have to stop giving a fuck. Don't confuse that with being socially uncalibrated. You can still be aware of the social dynamics occurring, adjust yourself accordingly, and still stay true to who you are. I wish there was an easy answer for this. What it took for me was identifying what's important to me, small and large, and then consistently saying that to other people or taking actions in front of others in alignment with who I say I am. For example, you know how "weird" it is to go to a restaurant with a group of friends and say your not eating? Pretty fucking weird. But I've done it multiple dozens of times. I still hang out with those people.

2. If you're trying to form individual connections into a friends group, then you need to logistically bring them all together. If you want them to all become close, then you need to choose activities that allow that to happen. So rather than all going out to a bar together, do a day trip with everyone to a winery. Rather than just inviting them out to a restaurant, invite them over to all cook together for a dinner party. Rather than doing a short outing together, invite them all on a weekend trip camping. It's also effective to invite them all out for something where you're going to "suffer" or work hard together like volunteering or helping one of them move. Do you see the difference? One will facilitate surface level engagement for a short time period. The other will facilitate the OPPRITUNITY for deeper engagement (because you can't force anyone to be friends).

4. Just never show sexual interest and friendzone yourself. I jest, kinda. Usually if you invite them out along with a bunch of other people, you're fine. They may get some notion in your head that you're into them or something, especially if they are into you. Not really a big deal. In fact that will work to your advantage if there is a girl in the group you're into. Pre-selection is powerful stuff.

3. Best places are ones where you already have an interest. In my examples in the previous, I was just partaking in things I already wanted to be doing. These people will share your interests or values on some level.

1. "Hey it was cool to kick it with you on Friday. Wanna (invite them out for a beer, concert, bowling, robbing a bank, raising a barn, collecting rocks, literally anything)?" If you want to invite them out for a group thing, "Hey X, Y, Z are thinking about going camping this weekend. Wanna come?" Don't overthink it, man. Its just like dating. If they say no, it could be for a dozen reasons that had nothing to do with your social abilities.

[Yggdrasil13]

Update. I did take some of this advice. I took some of the friends I already had and some of the new people I’d been meeting and organized them to go bowling. Of the new people, 1 came, 2 took a rain check and we made plans to do something else that are at present up in the air.

2 of them were a guy and a girl I met together and it weirdly filled me with abject terror reaching out to them, probably at least partially because one of them is a girl (even though I have minimal interest in her.) I don’t understand why, because if you told me they both hated me I don’t think I’d spend more than a day at most fretting about it. I think I am very afraid of public humiliation or losing face. I was afraid to reach out to the guy, but not nearly as afraid.

Anyway bowling was a fun time and I think it was good progress for me to organize something and bring somebody along I wasn’t close with. But I have a follow up question, @Bman

1. Now what? Like we had a fun time, but I don’t think I’ve really formed a friendship with the guy I invited. And I doubt this group of guys gets together again anytime soon if I’m not personally organizing it… how do I move things further?

That aside, long term I think my goal is to have a group of tier 1 friends, ideally at least 2 or 3 of them not including me. And a wider circle of less close friends. I probably have to meet more people to make it happen tbh.

Short term, I would like to throw a party and have people come.

As always, thanks for any advice.

[Bman]

I think I am very afraid of public humiliation or losing face.

Pretty normal. You're human. With time, just like approach anxiety, it will fade but never entirely go away.

if I’m not personally organizing it

And that's the rub, my friend. YOU will have to be the one personally organizing it. For a long time. How long? Until one of the other people texts the group and invites you all. Even then, if you want to build a solid friends group, someone is going to have to take initiative. Unfortunately that's a trait that is in short supply these days.

That aside, long term I think my goal is to have a group of tier 1 friends, ideally at least 2 or 3 of them not including me. And a wider circle of less close friends. I probably have to meet more people to make it happen tbh.

Short term, I would like to throw a party and have people come.

Both good things.

A note on something practical. After you get a few friends that vibe well together, start a group chat with them all. This really helps out with logistics. Often times people will volunteer to organize something if everyone is saying they want to do some activity. You can also just ask an open question to the group if there is someone else you wants to handle organizing next time. People are also more likely to say yes and show up because of FOMO.

[Zug]

Unfortunately that's a trait that is in short supply these days.

100% agree with what you said except this.

FORTUNATELY, not unfortunately.

If people want ignore free money on the floor, I'm happy to pick it up if they don't want it.

[Yggdrasil13]

No real updates on the social circle stuff. I am working on organizing a trivia night, but it is still in progress.

Changing gears for a second is there a guide on this site for night game or general advice on the subject? The friends I do have like going to bars and clubs and as long as I am being invited there I might as well make the most of it. I am still more focused on building social circle, but I am being invited out all the time.

On that subject:

1. How do I approach? 1 on the dance floor, 2 in quieter places. Looking for a general strategy.

2. How do you dance with girls? May seem like a vague question, but I’ve literally had girls try and dance with me but been clueless on what to do.

3. How do I deal with my friends? In general, nobody is making moves and I’m worried about being rejected in front of them (as is inevitable.)

4. Are there any good general guides on the subject on this site or elsewhere?

5. Is night game even worth it? I know most people on this site focus on day game. My past experiences has been that it takes rare circumstances to get a same night lay. It has only happened to me twice.

Generally, night game is not really my interest, OLD is a lot easier. But as long as I am going out with my friends, I might as well take advantage. And tbh there are a lot of baddies out. Thanks!

[Antonio44]

No real updates on the social circle stuff. I am working on organizing a trivia night, but it is still in progress.

Changing gears for a second is there a guide on this site for night game or general advice on the subject? The friends I do have like going to bars and clubs and as long as I am being invited there I might as well make the most of it. I am still more focused on building social circle, but I am being invited out all the time.

On that subject:

1. How do I approach? 1 on the dance floor, 2 in quieter places. Looking for a general strategy.

2. How do you dance with girls? May seem like a vague question, but I’ve literally had girls try and dance with me but been clueless on what to do.

3. How do I deal with my friends? In general, nobody is making moves and I’m worried about being rejected in front of them (as is inevitable.)

4. Are there any good general guides on the subject on this site or elsewhere?

5. Is night game even worth it? I know most people on this site focus on day game. My past experiences has been that it takes rare circumstances to get a same night lay. It has only happened to me twice.

Generally, night game is not really my interest, OLD is a lot easier. But as long as I am going out with my friends, I might as well take advantage. And tbh there are a lot of baddies out. Thanks!

1.1 ) If loud, go approach physically:

Soft options like high five as they walk past then spin them then dance with them. I like to be on a slightly less crowded part of dancefloor with lots of traffic. Benefit of this is you can just high five everyone going past (guys and girls) and then spin the girls you want.. If I highfive the first guy in a passing group, it's almost 100% that the rest of them will highfive too, then it's easy to spin the girl. Or if I see girls looking from across the club, (fairly uncommon), I'll beckon them to come towards me.

Harder options: the claw - grabbing them as they walk past by the hand and pulling them in towards you. You are a tree, grab her hand and softly pull her to you as you are rooted in the ground. Try to consider how you look (you want to pull them in in a fun way, not threateningly). Do not grab her hand hard.

Other leftfield options - you can try are just merge groups (talk to one guy/girl in another group, then introduce some of your group and suddenly you have a bigger group.

1.2) If quiet, open however you want, if you can talk easily you can just open how you feel in the moment, compliment something about her or just go up and say hi i'm x.

2) I just enjoy the music and the girl being there, dancing is foreplay. I'm sure there's videos on youtube etc on how to dance but it doesn't need to be fancy. Just move with the music, spin them occasionally and move her around a little, enjoy touching her/running your hands over her body, get close enough that your chest is touching hers, then move further away and repeat. You can talk a little bit while dancing (not all the time though) then move her elsewhere in the club, or ask her number.

3) Your male friends will generally respect the effort of approaching, apart from some light banter about being a player etc. No one cares - are you fussed if your mate goes to approach and then gets rejected.

4) Not sure. Main thing I do is just enjoy myself (look at the other guys in clubs and most of them don't look like they're having fun).

5) I really love it, if you enjoy nightlife I highly recommend. SNLs can be tricky but you can gather a lot of numbers in a night and get them out later that week.

[Yggdrasil13]

Update:

Not much to say, I did organize my trivia night, but it was kind of a bust because:

1. It’s not a good setting to talk to people because it’s loud and everyone’s focused on trivia.
2. I’m not that into trivia. (Somebody else suggested it)

That’s okay though, I’ve been meeting some cool people through the friends I already have, and am going to try to get people together to play basketball… it might take some time though because Easter’s this weekend and my family’s in town. Probably going to eventually try and throw a party as well. I think things are moving in a good direction. I think I know what to do.

I haven’t had a chance to try out the night game stuff, unfortunately. Although that’s not as much as a priority for me rn.

Other than that I’ve dropped around 12 lbs in the last 6 weeks and re-gained a ton of strength that I had lost while I was injured. Probably still have at least 10-20 more to go sadly. Figure I should be done by June or July at the latest. Going to get back on the apps then, but until then I’m going to take advantage of having more free time.

@Bman just one question:

1. How do you befriend girls. Might seem similar to a question I’ve asked already, but slightly different this time. Basically I am meeting a lot of people but they’re mostly men. Which is great, but honestly it would be nice to be able to throw a party that has some women at it. The situation I’m in right now is there are a few girls I loosely know through other friends that I see regularly but are near complete strangers to me. I’ll talk to them from time to time but it’s barely at acquaintance level, if even that. And honestly, I try not to try too hard to talk to them because I don’t want to seem like I’m hitting on them. So basically, how to proceed here? How to even reach acquaintance level with a girl? It seems to happen easily and naturally with men, but not with women. And then, what kind of things to invite them to to become closer because I feel like I can’t invite them to do something with 4 dudes? Nor can I invite them to do something alone because that’s a date lol.

Thanks!

[Bman]

@Bman just one question:

Just invite them out to the group activities. As long as you have at least two girls there, its fine if there is 4 dudes. Obviously its better if its even or skewed towards girls, but if you're just starting out with getting people regularly together its fine. If you invite one of these girls out and she declines, you can try again in the future. If she declines again, just move on to other ones. Also, inviting couples out together really helps. Its usually easier to befriend a girl that's already taken because she doesn't directly assume you are trying to get with her.

Just keep doing it, man. Eventually you'll be known as the guy that just invites people out to cool stuff.

This is a little beyond your question, but I don't think it's entirely possible to befriend a girl beyond Tier 3 without it turning into attraction. Even in Tier 3, one person at least has some mild attraction for the other.