colgate - gaijin group pickup coaching sesh recap!

[pancakemouse]

Try a new mindset: Having fun and positive interactions with everybody that you talk to and make their days better. Suddenly you'll get 25 numbers and 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches.

I really feel the need to call this out, as it's said to me often as well - I can't stand advice like this. Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is to get laid.

While your above points about creating win-win situations are valid, you can't just go out with a "positive mentality' and expect things to fall into your lap. You have to have a system and Game. Even with both of those, approach to lay ratios north of 200:1 are very common.

I ran into some guy who saw me approaching the other day and he has had success at the same venue I've been at. I was discussing instadates and pulling and he told me if you escalate and go for the makeout on the date itself, you'll have a much easier time pulling and more girls will be willing to come with you. This isn't even the first time I've heard this, but it seems to be a common theme, to actually escalate on the girl before you actually pull.

While I think he's right that more escalation is needed before the pull, I don't think that making out is the right move. Especially during a daytime instadate with the type of girls you are going after (who are generally gonna be uncomfortable with public displays of affection).

But... you might as well try it out for a bit and then calibrate back down if it's not working.

[colgate]

Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is,

Not to get too off topic here but having the approach experience between different venues I can make the following remark about this.

If you approach on e.g. a college campus, or maybe a sunny park, there are far more girls willing to have a short chat with you, and the rejections aren't as strong. That's why I was able to pick up 41 contacts over 130 approaches back in September at a college campus.

A guy who's more calibrated than I am and isn't a total noob can hook up quite often just from approaching college girls, especially if he can come off as confident and sexual, with relatively few approaches. There was this one time Troy went 10/12 on campus and hooked up with 1 or 2 of the girls from that batch.

On the other hand, lots of high pedestrian traffic areas have many people cold approaching for various reasons, such as Bible study, pickup, and sales. Girls are inherently more closed off in these venues, and you'll have extremely low conversion rates just due to the nature of the venue. On a college campus in the extreme, I can get 13 contacts over 25 approaches while I can have clean zero stretches over 25 at the mall. Additionally, I've mentioned in previous posts that girls tend to hard deflect, iow, lots of "can't get past hey, can't get past opener" type dynamic.

Some people might say well why are you even approaching there at such a low-percentages place. For me, it's been another step in my own journey of "approach is therapy". I've realized absorbing a lot of hard deflections has made me much colder, and for someone who's basically a spastic ball of plasma, I need that. If you listen to my last audio I sent here, I believe my vocal tonality has improved, and I think vocal tonality comes from a place of what latent emotional state you're in. It also makes me feel much more bold doing my daily warmup approaches on campus where I just stroll around and talk to 3-5 girls.

[Manganiello]

Try a new mindset: Having fun and positive interactions with everybody that you talk to and make their days better. Suddenly you'll get 25 numbers and 2-3 lays out of 70 approaches.

I really feel the need to call this out, as it's said to me often as well - I can't stand advice like this. Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is to get laid.

While your above points about creating win-win situations are valid, you can't just go out with a "positive mentality' and expect things to fall into your lap.

I was literally going to say this.

Ive never seen anyone pull those kinds of conversions off of just being positive. 3 lays out of 70 is pretty rare.


My only lay from day game came from being very pissed off.

I was not a happy camper that day. And I didn't want to make girls feel good. I just wanted to fuck.


And to be honest same has been true for online dates. Plenty of girls I've fucked were not smiling on the date. Nor was I trying to make their day better.


I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.

[pancakemouse]

Guys who don't cold approach at volume have no idea how difficult it is,

Not to get too off topic here but having the approach experience between different venues I can make the following remark about this.

If you approach on e.g. a college campus, or maybe a sunny park, there are far more girls willing to have a short chat with you, and the rejections aren't as strong. That's why I was able to pick up 41 contacts over 130 approaches back in September at a college campus.

A guy who's more calibrated than I am and isn't a total noob can hook up quite often just from approaching college girls, especially if he can come off as confident and sexual, with relatively few approaches. There was this one time Troy went 10/12 on campus and hooked up with 1 or 2 of the girls from that batch.

On the other hand, lots of high pedestrian traffic areas have many people cold approaching for various reasons, such as Bible study, pickup, and sales. Girls are inherently more closed off in these venues, and you'll have extremely low conversion rates just due to the nature of the venue. On a college campus in the extreme, I can get 13 contacts over 25 approaches while I can have clean zero stretches over 25 at the mall. Additionally, I've mentioned in previous posts that girls tend to hard deflect, iow, lots of "can't get past hey, can't get past opener" type dynamic.

Some people might say well why are you even approaching there at such a low-percentages place. For me, it's been another step in my own journey of "approach is therapy". I've realized absorbing a lot of hard deflections has made me much colder, and for someone who's basically a spastic ball of plasma, I need that. If you listen to my last audio I sent here, I believe my vocal tonality has improved, and I think vocal tonality comes from a place of what latent emotional state you're in. It also makes me feel much more bold doing my daily warmup approaches on campus where I just stroll around and talk to 3-5 girls.

Most differences of opinion in Game are just guys talking past each other because they don't have any concept of the other guy's context. That's why I've tried my hardest to test out as many different types of Game as possible, so I can try to give the best advice.

Regarding venues, when I first started daygame I was approaching during rush hour in the Financial District in downtown San Francisco. I was confused why I was getting rejected so much compared to other guys I had read about. I figured it was because I was a noob.

Now I'm like "Oh... yeah. Duh."

I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.

I don't think it's as much a technique as it is just a nice thing to do for the world. I practice it.

But I'm a utilitarian, so there ya go.

[Manganiello]

I actually take issue with the statement.
"Leave the girl better than you found her".


... It's a nice saying.
But does it actually make a difference?
I'm not completely sold on it.

I kind of wonder if it's a phrase to make guys feel better about what they're doing vs actually being for the girl.

I don't think it's as much a technique as it is just a nice thing to do for the world. I practice it.

But I'm a utilitarian, so there ya go.

Ya exactly.
There's nothing wrong with it.

Im just point out it seems like it's more about guys deciding to be nice, vs. that niceness converting into lays.

[colgate]

Been stewing on this story for a while and letting it develop, and I mentioned I'd talk about it at some point. It concluded today.

I approached a chick on 2/8 on campus with "you're cute as fuck". She's like "oh, you're so confident". She was on her way to get a covid test so we just chatted and then exchanged.

First date
We met up for a first date last Wednesday. Plan was to meet at a bubble tea shop near my place at 5:30pm. She said she had to be at the airport at 7:30pm, so I figured ok sure that's enough time.

I was in traffic on my way home from the office so I texted her at 5:07pm that I'm going to be 5 minutes late. She's like okay, I'm on my way and arrives on time. She asks me "where are you?" I'm like "give me 5 minutes".

I show up but she's not there. I call her and she's like "oh I went to go grab something from my place, can you order a tea for me?". uhhh lol okay. I waited probably 15-20 minutes and called her again. She said she was at the bubble tea shop but she can't see me. Turns out she went to a different shop. And to add to the confusion, she did actually show up to the correct shop at 5:30 but decided to go to a different one for some reason (???).

Anyway I text her to meet me at this one area on campus in the middle and I head over there. I open my phone and she tells me that she wants to meet somewhere else. This chick literally can't follow directions, seriously. Well we finally met up at the place she said around 6:10pm and I hand over her tea.

We are walking towards my place (20ish minute walk). Out of curiosity I asked where she was flying out to. She kept telling me it's a secret. I was like wtf, okay. Later I kept joking with her sometimes when she would ask me things that it's a secret. I suggest several times we can chill inside for a bit and then I'll take her to the airport. She keeps bringing up how she "doesn't trust me" and etc. I'm like, you aren't even just telling me out of basic convo where you're flying out to.

She also keeps saying we need to hurry up, even thought it was like 6:30pm or something. I'm like relax, the airport is 8 minutes away, we'll be at my place in like another 5-10 minutes. What time's your flight anyway? She refused to tell me.

We arrived outside my place and I told her she should come in. She brought up the trust thing again, and I was like well I don't even trust you, why can't you just tell me what city you're visiting? Turns out she misunderstood what I was asking and thought I was trying to probe into her plans for the night. Additionally, she wasn't even flying out anywhere, she just wanted to go to the airport to pick up a car rental. Since it was kind of a miscommunication between both of us, I decided we can just chill outside and I'll take her to the airport and we can meet again later.

When I took her to the airport, I accidentally drove into the wrong ramp and I would have had to pay to advance forward. So I literally tried to back out of the ramp back onto the main road. Took me 3 tries because oncoming cars had to travel on the ramp and I had to go forward, move to the side to let them through, and try again. I told the girl that this was the weirdest first date I've ever been on.

I finally dropped her off and I was like, well that was a massive waste of time.

But then a random number texted me thanking me for the backwards drive and she had fun. I was like wtf do u have 2 phones. Apparently she got a new phone and I was the first person she texted.

She invited me to see some jazz show with her the next week. Probably if I had more experience I wouldn't have gone, and I got advice from many guys to just block+erase her. But since I have so little experience with girls, I decided I need this date to happen and let it play out for my own memory bank. Plus, I like jazz.

Second date
She tells me to purchase the tickets and she'll pay me back. I'm like okay sure. When we met up she immediately paid back without me asking.

We sat in our seats but she was already acting really weird. She kept telling me "omg you take up so much space" and not letting me get near her. I was like yeah, I need like 3 chairs and lay down across the chairs and leaned into her. She pushed me off. Besides that, just boring chat about music and etc.

The show started and the music was great. The singer told the audience "you guys need to loosen up, I give you permission to get loose". The girl told me "yeah you can get loose in those chairs over there". I pretended I misunderstood and asked "what did you say". She remained silent. Later some people sat in the chairs next to me and she said "oh, you lost your chance to get loose."

At this point I was just thinking, I didn't do 1600+ approaches to get a girl who is going to be hyper unreceptive to me touching her. And I had that date in Austin who refused to give me a hug at the start of the date and was unreceptive the entire time: viewtopic.php?p=24002#p24002. So I just imagined myself taking 20-30+ deflections in a row at the mall and zoned into that feeling.

I touched her arm here and there in between comments and she nonreacted. Eventually I put my arm over her. She lifted her back up and told me "can you get your arm off of me please." I instantly got up and walked out of the show. Went outside and realized I forgot my jacket. Walked back in to grab my jacket and walked back out.

I maybe felt a little bad for the performers because I did enjoy the music, but I'm not going to put up with some chick who refuses to let me touch her on a second date.

Went to go eat some Mexican food and took 2 aggressive deflections on my way back home. Life goes on.

[Crisis_Overcomer]

Went to go eat some Mexican food

Loads of value here, thanks for sharing G

She was a disaster waiting to happen but it's OK. If you don't fuck up, you don't fuck.

P.S. Vasilis would have smashed.

[Adrizzle]

Man imma be real with u. If one of my mates told me this story, I’d call him a overreactive fuckhead. You left because of 1 push back from the girl about you putting your arm around her. Think about how this seems to her, do you think you came off as non-needy?

She wasn’t a “disaster waiting to happen”. You literally didn’t even have a go at her. Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

This girl was clearly into you, because your first date seemed like a shitshow but she wanted to see you again. It seems like you have a real me vs them mentality. I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

I maybe felt a little bad for the performers because I did enjoy the music, but I'm not going to put up with some chick who refuses to let me touch her on a second date.

Do you have 3 plates already?
Did you leave to workout, make money, meet new girls or did you get food and shitpost on the internet?
You could have enjoyed some sweet jazz.

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Good thing there’s always another chance

[colgate]

Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

The only thing that may have been true is "the timing was wrong". But if the timing was wrong on the second date to put my arm over a girl, then I can meet someone else (I know you likely meant in the micro scale in terms of perhaps "she wasn't comfortable in the moment", but still). There were various points between the first and second date where anytime I did anything involving physical touch she reacted pretty strangely to it. Maybe I could have brought it up to her if we kept meeting up but I didn't like being around her.

she wanted to see you again

Yeah but I didn't. I said I only went on the second date due to my own lack of experience, and to see if maybe the first date was just pure miscommunication and maybe I'll give it another run.

I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

It was, though this girl tended to specifically take it in weird ways. For example she was $3 short when paying me back and I joked "oh you owe me a Gatorade later", and her immediate thought was "I have work after this". Wasn't even saying that I wanted to spend more time with her after (which I was probably going to propose depending on how much I enjoyed the time on this date).

Do you have 3 plates already?
Did you leave to workout, make money, meet new girls or did you get food and shitpost on the internet?

I don't think "having 3 plates" is a prerequisite for not forcing yourself into situations where you're wasting your time. And yeah, maybe by all means by the 7th date we could start holding hands but I'm not interested in that. This isn't the first date I've ever been on.

Good thing there’s always another chance

Yeah, exactly.

[pancakemouse]

Man imma be real with u. If one of my mates told me this story, I’d call him a overreactive fuckhead. You left because of 1 push back from the girl about you putting your arm around her. Think about how this seems to her, do you think you came off as non-needy?

She wasn’t a “disaster waiting to happen”. You literally didn’t even have a go at her. Idk was she super young maybe she was nervous, maybe she hurt her shoulder, maybe she really liked the song, maybe the timing was wrong. You could have stuck around to find out.

This girl was clearly into you, because your first date seemed like a shitshow but she wanted to see you again. It seems like you have a real me vs them mentality. I wasn’t there but your banter doesn’t sound playful.

Hard disagree. Her behavior indicates that she's a timewaster at best, lunatic at worst. I wouldn't have even gone on the first date, as soon as it became clear she was using him for an airport ride.

But...mileage. Guys need to learn for themselves that
1. A certain percentage of women just have insane energy beyond repair.
2. A much greater percentage will use men for validation.

[colgate]

Hard disagree. Her behavior indicates that she's a timewaster at best, lunatic at worst.

Yeah, like I get that I could have made this work and I appreciate the alternative perspective from @Adrizzle. I also understand I'm not entitled to this girl, or any girl, reacting positively to something I do but it goes both ways. I see this date as she put up a bunch of filters and I failed to pass through them, and I put up my own filters and she failed to pass through mine. Someone's gotta break first and I decided I wanted to be the one to break for the first time.

[Ed_]

I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her.

I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. [...] I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look.

I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.

I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.

Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.

Agree with @Heisenberg , this sort of "alpha male social control" is just weird and not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a guy who's genuinely trying to get laid.

And I don't buy the excuse that "these are failed approaches, so I'm just having fun with myself." The fact that you're acting like this towards so many women means something else is going in your psyche and motivation.

Why not just move on when chicks clearly aren't interested? If you want to fuck around and have fun with chicks, it should be a two-way street where they enjoy the interaction too -- not chasing girls out of stores, girls being "hyper scared", girls hiding from you in shops, and girls "literally running away" from you.

Seriously @colgate , reread your field report from the view of an objective 3rd party. Are those the interactions of a well adjusted, young man who's trying to get meet women and have sex, or something else?

[colgate]

I look at some chick maybe 10 feet away and she looks at me. Starts darting off, I didn't even approach. I just kept staring at her and tailing her from a distance, and she darts into a shoe store. I stand in place, at least 20 feet away from her but I look at her.

I deadpan look at each member of the family as they whine at me. [...] I periodically walk, turn around completely and look deadpan, walk, turn around and look.

I just stand in place and she immediately leaves the store. I see another girl in the store. Do the exact same thing. 30 second chat, stand in place. She leaves the store too.

I can kind of tell they're already hyper scared and want to change trajectory/avoid me so I just go slightly ahead of them straight to the top of the down escalator. They both go into the top of the up escalator. I forced this entire trajectory and bust out laughing and make fun of them for trying to go down the up escalator for like a whole minute and then leave.

Later I run into her again and she sees me and hides behind a digital sign. I just stand in place for about a minute. Then she gives up and comes out and I stare at her, still standing still. She keeps looking at me and then literally runs away like a little bunny.

Agree with @Heisenberg , this sort of "alpha male social control" is just weird and not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a guy who's genuinely trying to get laid.

And I don't buy the excuse that "these are failed approaches, so I'm just having fun with myself." The fact that you're acting like this towards so many women means something else is going in your psyche and motivation.

Why not just move on when chicks clearly aren't interested? If you want to fuck around and have fun with chicks, it should be a two-way street where they enjoy the interaction too -- not chasing girls out of stores, girls being "hyper scared", girls hiding from you in shops, and girls "literally running away" from you.

Seriously @colgate , reread your field report from the view of an objective 3rd part. Are those the interactions of a well adjusted, young man who's trying to get meet women and have sex, or something else?

Yeah these are bad. I was letting "this power" get to my head "because I could do it". I need to log more of my approach sessions again. I've been working on non-reacting and ejecting when I know the girl(s) are unreceptive and keeping it under control.

Honestly I think a lot of these behaviors manifested from literally being salty from taking lots of harsh deflections in a row, and it's quite immature. The real test is to take all the rejections and remain stoic about them.

Thanks for calling me out guys.

[Squilliam]

I don't blame you at all for walking out. I agree with Pancake's perspective. Your goal is to get laid. A girl who won't even let you put your arm around her on a second date is definitely a "wait until date 15" type girl.

[PinchePendejo]

I don't mind your decision to leave. The arm around her "rejection" was just the straw that broke the camel's back. You implied you didn't like her because you just went on the 2nd date for experience. I've had dates where I left early for similar reasons as yours. I don't regret those choices at all. Funnily enough, when I make the decision to leave and get up...my dates have this "holy shit, he's REJECTING ME" look on their face. I'll always remember how they look when the script has been flipped. Good times...

Anyway, keep trucking on. You'll go on dates with girls that'll love you and be the total opposite of what you just experienced.