[Foducossy42] Date Logs

[foducossy42]

I’m an attractive male in mid 20s in London. Ethnically Indian, culturally a mix of Asian/Western. I’m objectively good looking.

Anyway who gives a shit about my self-description. Check out my tinder profile here: [redacted]

I get a tonne of matches on online dating, too many for the days of the week in fact. When I started online dating a month ago, I had a wild week where I slept with 3 new girls, and in 3 weeks I slept with 5. After that it’s been terrible and I’ve not slept with anyone, though I did bring a girl home and make out with her — the chemistry was off, neither of us was super into each other sexually, she said we had friendly vibes and I agreed. I’ve also gone on a LOT of dates in the last 1/2 weeks (literally one of the weeks it was 6 dates in 6 days), and it’s been a waste of time.

My question is why? Several themes I am noticing.

1. Sometimes there are girls who I do not vibe with or have much in common with. Am I failing to filter out these girls? How do I filter them out ahead of time? Could I have still managed to sleep with them? If so, how? If I don’t think we vibe, how long should I give before I decide to end the date earlier?

2. Too many dates. This is subtle. I am caring much less about each girl because I have more and more matches now, and I think that scheduling too many dates in a row is possibly affecting my ability to connect with the girl? I’m an introvert and I’m not built for 6 dates in 6 nights. But I’m not sure if it’s this, or just an incompatibility between me and the girl and I’m just unlucky.

3. Not enough physical escalation. I don’t know if this is true. I start the date with a walk, and I initiate contact early on by guiding them across the road etc. During the date I am trying to touch them a bit but not a lot — this can be improved, surely. I don’t know if I should be more direct about touching. In my experience, it generally can happen quite naturally, and girls will send signals or relax into being physically closer to me, without me doing too much to break the touch barrier.

4. Not enough verbal escalation. This is a weak point for me. I don’t know much about this and can definitely benefit. My main thing is to try to listen more than I talk. I try to drop some qualifying questions too.

Also what are your thoughts on paying for the girl’s drink? I don’t feel it has an impact on how the date goes. And I’d rather spend that money on a Tinder boost (then again I’m already drowning in matches so maybe not.)

[Manganiello]

I’m an attractive male in mid 20s in London. Ethnically Indian, culturally a mix of Asian/Western. I’ve been rated 6.2 on r/truerateme which implies being top 15% in terms of facial aesthetics.

Anyway who gives a shit about my self-description. Check out my tinder profile here: https://tinder.com/@fusocidic

I get a tonne of matches on online dating, too many for the days of the week in fact. When I started online dating a month ago, I had a wild week where I slept with 3 new girls, and in 2.5 weeks I slept with 5. After that it’s been terrible and I’ve not slept with anyone, though I did bring a girl home and make out with her — the chemistry was off, neither of us was super into each other sexually, she said we had friendly vibes and I agreed. I’ve also gone on a LOT of dates in the last 1/2 weeks (literally one of the weeks it was 6 dates in 6 days) including a gorgeous girl who does beauty pageants as a hobby, and it’s been a waste of time.

My question is why? Several themes I am noticing.

1. Sometimes there are girls who I do not vibe with or have much in common with. Am I failing to filter out these girls? How do I filter them out ahead of time? Could I have still managed to sleep with them? If so, how? If I don’t think we vibe, how long should I give before I decide to end the date earlier?

2. Too many dates. This is subtle. I am caring much less about each girl because I have more and more matches now, and I think that scheduling too many dates in a row is possibly affecting my ability to connect with the girl? I’m an introvert and I’m not built for 6 dates in 6 nights. But I’m not sure if it’s this, or just an incompatibility between me and the girl and I’m just unlucky.

3. Not enough physical escalation. I don’t know if this is true. I start the date with a walk, and I initiate contact early on by guiding them across the road etc. During the date I am trying to touch them a bit but not a lot — this can be improved, surely. I don’t know if I should be more direct about touching. In my experience, it generally can happen quite naturally, and girls will send signals or relax into being physically closer to me, without me doing too much to break the touch barrier.

4. Not enough verbal escalation. This is a weak point for me. I don’t know much about this and can definitely benefit. My main thing is to try to listen more than I talk. I try to drop some qualifying questions too.

Also what are your thoughts on paying for the girl’s drink? I don’t feel it has an impact on how the date goes. And I’d rather spend that money on a Tinder boost (then again I’m already drowning in matches so maybe not.)

1. I don't think so. Atleast efficiently. After awhile you start to notice patterns and archetypes. But like verbal screening probably not. Some girls are just dull. You don't have to finish your dates.



2. This is a thing. Actually I've had almost a date everyday for the last month. And I noticed thaf I get so busy Im actually not that social, just because my whole life is a giant rush. I'm rushing from work to dates to sleep. And the other thing is that I noticed I don't care about getting laid as much either because I have so many dates I can afford to fuck up. Id be passive with my escalation. So ya, I'm actually leaning towards having less dates than I can.

3 and 4. The important thing is to let girls know that this isn't going to be a friendly chat. You are there to fuck them. So get that vibe across and that solves most of it.

Theres a difference between getting girls to be ok with touching and getting them to want it. If you want your girls to want sex, you need escalate from her not just knowing you want sex to her actively thinking about it. I found Tom Torrero's street hustle to give a ton of ways to escalate from socially acceptable to making out with her.

[Vice]

The important thing is to let girls know that this isn't going to be a friendly chat. You are there to fuck them. So get that vibe across and that solves most of it.

This.

So many dudes act like they're there to be their little fucking friend.

[pancakemouse]

Need more details. Post detailed descriptions of each date, including (ideally) photos of girl to gauge her archetype, what you talked about, what you did, any objections that arose, etc.

[foducossy42]

1. I don't think so. Atleast efficiently. After awhile you start to notice patterns and archetypes. But like verbal screening probably not. Some girls are just dull. You don't have to finish your dates.



2. This is a thing. Actually I've had almost a date everyday for the last month. And I noticed thaf I get so busy Im actually not that social, just because my whole life is a giant rush. I'm rushing from work to dates to sleep. And the other thing is that I noticed I don't care about getting laid as much either because I have so many dates I can afford to fuck up. Id be passive with my escalation. So ya, I'm actually leaning towards having less dates than I can.

3 and 4. The important thing is to let girls know that this isn't going to be a friendly chat. You are there to fuck them. So get that vibe across and that solves most of it.

Theres a difference between getting girls to be ok with touching and getting them to want it. If you want your girls to want sex, you need escalate from her not just knowing you want sex to her actively thinking about it. I found Tom Torrero's street hustle to give a ton of ways to escalate from socially acceptable to making out with her.

Thanks man! This really helped. Read Tom Torrero’s and I understand verbal escalation now.

I implemented the ideas: fewer dates, trying to screen before the date, and a bit of Tom Torrero’s verbal escalation (basically push-pull flirting and some eye contact). Had one date last week (could have had more but chose not to) and it went really well (smashed), saw her another time that week. This ended my dry spell of a week or so.

Coming week I’ve got just one date. I am feeling more confident again that I know what I’m doing.

[foducossy42]

Need more details. Post detailed descriptions of each date, including (ideally) photos of girl to gauge her archetype, what you talked about, what you did, any objections that arose, etc.

Thanks, will do this for any upcoming dates that end up going south.

[Sparkles]

1. Sometimes there are girls who I do not vibe with or have much in common with. Am I failing to filter out these girls? How do I filter them out ahead of time? Could I have still managed to sleep with them? If so, how? If I don’t think we vibe, how long should I give before I decide to end the date earlier?

I've been thinking about this too, cause I've also had quite a few dates like this. One thing I thought of (which I haven't tried yet) is doing a 5-10 minute video call before you ask them out in-person. That should be enough time to reveal whether you "vibe" together, but also much more time-efficient than a full date.

Or, just being willing to leave a date early (can be hard, I know!)

2. Too many dates. This is subtle. I am caring much less about each girl because I have more and more matches now, and I think that scheduling too many dates in a row is possibly affecting my ability to connect with the girl? I’m an introvert and I’m not built for 6 dates in 6 nights. But I’m not sure if it’s this, or just an incompatibility between me and the girl and I’m just unlucky.

Mate, dating is supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, SLOW THE FUCK DOWN. Once you get this under control, then dating doesn't have to be your entire life anymore.

I personally like forming deeper long-term relationships with the girls I date - i.e. I would rather have 2-3 concurrent long-term casual relationships than fuck a new girl every night.

3. Not enough physical escalation. I don’t know if this is true. I start the date with a walk, and I initiate contact early on by guiding them across the road etc. During the date I am trying to touch them a bit but not a lot — this can be improved, surely. I don’t know if I should be more direct about touching. In my experience, it generally can happen quite naturally, and girls will send signals or relax into being physically closer to me, without me doing too much to break the touch barrier.

4. Not enough verbal escalation. This is a weak point for me. I don’t know much about this and can definitely benefit. My main thing is to try to listen more than I talk. I try to drop some qualifying questions too.

bro this shit LITERALLY does not matter. just be your fucking sperg self, hang out for an hour, then utter the MAGIC WORDS:
"hey, let's go hang out at my place"
if she says no, she's not interested. If she comes to your place then it's fucking ON.

Also what are your thoughts on paying for the girl’s drink? I don’t feel it has an impact on how the date goes. And I’d rather spend that money on a Tinder boost (then again I’m already drowning in matches so maybe not.)

I have no problem doing this, although if you're doing 6 dates a week, that might get quite expensive.

[Zug]

Technical game bible has some good stuff in regards to how man to woman conversation blueprint actually works. I know a lot of guys place huge emphasis on physical escalation during the date in public. Personally, I always had a problem with this. You really don't need that much. Get her to show you some rings/bracelets/tattoos, touch them briefly, compare hand sizes, etc. Then make sure you're sitting as close as possible with legs touching, which I find to be the most consistent way to create an environment of sexual tension.

Sexual escalation via conversation really isn't that hard. How are the apps treating you > Worst message youve ever gotten > Worst date youve ever been on > When was your last relationship > What was good about it, what was bad about it > Ask if the sex was any good > Ask her what she is looking for > Ask her if she has any fun kinks. Between each of these, touch base on some platonic stuff she mentions and deep dive a bit, then pivot back. Try to force yourself into a mindset of having fun and actively trying to tease her in a way she also finds funny. Pull back to your place when you get the feeling she will say yes, when you hit a specific time limit, or when you run out of convo options in public; whichever comes first. If you can get the convo into sexual territory and she asks you something that's not appropriate to answer in public, tell her you'll answer, but you should continue this convo in private.

At your place make drinks or smoke some weed, whatever. Maybe controversial, but do not put on a movie. If she asks if you're going to watch something together, I will hard stare at them and tell them I have no interest in watching a movie whatsoever. Sit on a couch or bed close, start talking, ask her some question, as she's answering pull her legs onto you. If she pauses in her answer, prompt her to continue. Then just keep the convo going and try to make it sexual. I'll usually make some hard direct eye contact during one of her answers and after she finishes sit in silence for a moment, then give a come hither gesture with my hand and 98% of the time they'll come in for a kiss. I found this to be effective because it implicitly asks for permission while explicitly telling her what to do in a very dominant way. I'll pull back from initial kiss and continue convo a bit then continue, then repeat this while asking more sexually charged questions. If I think they gave me a bullshit answer on what theyre looking for, I'll ask again. I'm past the point of wanting to have sex with girls not after the same thing. Then I'll start asking them what they're into, discuss what I am, safewords, etc. then go in hard. Never gotten LMR from this approach.

[Vice]

Technical game bible has some good stuff in regards to how man to woman conversation blueprint actually works. I know a lot of guys place huge emphasis on physical escalation during the date in public. Personally, I always had a problem with this. You really don't need that much. Get her to show you some rings/bracelets/tattoos, touch them briefly, compare hand sizes, etc. Then make sure you're sitting as close as possible with legs touching, which I find to be the most consistent way to create an environment of sexual tension.

Agreed; I've found that legs touching is more than enough of a signal for me to take them to my place. At this point in my game I almost consider it to be PDA at the bar I take them on dates to.

Many new guys see flashy game online and think it has to be that way (as well as club makeouts, "k-closes" and other stupid tacky shit that impresses guys but makes women feel cheap), but the subtle signals are all you need.

Sexual escalation via conversation really isn't that hard. How are the apps treating you > Worst message youve ever gotten > Worst date youve ever been on > When was your last relationship > What was good about it, what was bad about it > Ask if the sex was any good > Ask her what she is looking for > Ask her if she has any fun kinks. Between each of these, touch base on some platonic stuff she mentions and deep dive a bit, then pivot back. Try to force yourself into a mindset of having fun and actively trying to tease her in a way she also finds funny. Pull back to your place when you get the feeling she will say yes, when you hit a specific time limit, or when you run out of convo options in public; whichever comes first. If you can get the convo into sexual territory and she asks you something that's not appropriate to answer in public, tell her you'll answer, but you should continue this convo in private.

This is great advice.

At your place make drinks or smoke some weed, whatever. Maybe controversial, but do not put on a movie. If she asks if you're going to watch something together, I will hard stare at them and tell them I have no interest in watching a movie whatsoever. Sit on a couch or bed close, start talking, ask her some question, as she's answering pull her legs onto you. If she pauses in her answer, prompt her to continue. Then just keep the convo going and try to make it sexual. I'll usually make some hard direct eye contact during one of her answers and after she finishes sit in silence for a moment, then give a come hither gesture with my hand and 98% of the time they'll come in for a kiss. I found this to be effective because it implicitly asks for permission while explicitly telling her what to do in a very dominant way. I'll pull back from initial kiss and continue convo a bit then continue, then repeat this while asking more sexually charged questions. If I think they gave me a bullshit answer on what theyre looking for, I'll ask again. I'm past the point of wanting to have sex with girls not after the same thing. Then I'll start asking them what they're into, discuss what I am, safewords, etc. then go in hard. Never gotten LMR from this approach.

I'm not sure about the hard stare technique, especially since I'm personally a scary looking guy when I do that. I'd also not want a woman to feel uncomfortable in my apartment with a hard stare, but that's getting into the weeds.

By the time they get to my apartment, they already know they're not there to watch a movie. I let them settle in a little bit, give them a quick tour, and then close the curtains to not make voyeurs out of the public.

[foducossy42]

Hey all, as I said I’d post if there’s any date that doesn’t go well.

There have since been several that I went on where I didn’t sleep with the girl but I didn’t want to either so all good.

There’s just been one case it happened 1.5 days ago, where I really thought it went well and she didn’t reply to my text for a second date — text was sent at 2pm, she didn’t reply that day. So I assume she’s not keen as she’s replied every couple hours before the date.

Date report:

This girl and I hit it off on Tinder, lots of jokes and banter. Both of us are “short term open to long term” on Tinder. Decided to arrange a date on WhatsApp, conversation was mildly sexual and flirty (she insinuated she’d like to see me naked, I said I wanted to see her tattoo that was in a private place on her body and that we could trade, she agreed).

She lives in a place where you need to take a rail (like an Amtrak) to get to, so the last trains are around 11pm and then it’s hard to get home. So we meet up nearer to my place at 8pm for a drink, which happens to be near a rail stop. The date goes well — we’re both smiling and laughing a lot, initiating kino on my end feels natural (usually a good sign for me that I didn’t have to force it). I went to the toilet at one point, returned and she was on her phone (no issues with that) and she went to the toilet right after me, I was on WhatsApp and noticed she was online while in the toilet. When she came back she apologised for taking so long (which really I didn’t mind, except that it indicated that she was self-aware that by doing something else in the toilet she was taking longer). That was a bit weird. Anyway there wasn’t any issue resuming conversation, no energy shift or anything. In fact she was physically closer with knees touching after she sat down again. She held eye contact at one point and I took that signal to go in for the kiss. We were in a secluded part of the bar so it was easy enough to do so. Continued chatting after that.

About the date: Conversation was possibly a problem, because while there was chemistry, I wasn’t asking her enough questions for some reason. She kept asking me lots of questions and I had to keep telling her to let me ask some instead, but I came up with boring questions. She seemed fairly interested in me though. We also discussed the gym, she’s a self-confessed gym rat. So I showed her my apps for workout, weight and calorie tracking as I’m quite into it. I specified that I take it quite chill though and eat whatever I want, just that I track it so I know what’s going on with my body. This didn’t seem to be a turnoff for her. But who knows…

Around 10:15pm I say let’s head out, we leave the bar and I ask if she wants to come to my place to see XYZ. She said she really wanted to, but that she had to get home as it was a Sun night and she needed to get into the office on Mon, but that she did want to see me again. She also has a 1.5h commute to the office. So I know this is not something I can logic my way out of — 10:15 to around 11:20 is 65min and walking to and from my place would take 30min total. I tell her I’m pretty busy for the coming week but can do next Sat or Sun, she says she can’t do Sat but will check and we can arrange the next date over text.

Aside: next time should I not bother to schedule the date while in person? Should I just leave it entirely to text?

Anyway, I then walk her back to the station. We didn’t kiss goodbye (bad sign? Did I fuck something up?). I didn’t notice anything amiss though. Some possible things that went wrong were that after failing to pull her to my place, and trying to schedule a second date, I defaulted to saying let me walk you to your station. I don’t know if maybe she wanted me to still hang out with her a bit longer while I could, as maybe I could have shown more effort like checking when the trains are and walking around a bit with her. It could be that the conversation on the way to the station turned her off, but I don’t think so — she opened up on a health issue she faced. She did ask me did I enjoy living in the city, I said somewhat, though I’m not sure if I’ve culturally assimilated after 5 years here and I’d like to try living abroad next year. Maybe she decided that she wants something long term and doesn’t want to waste time with a guy who might leave our city in a year?

Text her the standard “let me know when you get home safe” and she tells me, also thanks me “for a very fun date”. I say I enjoyed myself too.

Next day 2pm I sent something like “I realised we forgot to discuss X (thing she was very curious about), I’m such a tease. Are you free Fri?” And she didn’t reply. It’s now the day after that.

There is the possibility she replies today. But I get the sense something turned her off and I really don’t know what that might be.

I know there are other girls. And I have dates lined up with them. And I’ve been rejected before but I always saw it coming. In this case the whole date seemed to go well.

The main issue in my opinion was that I fucked up on logistics — I knew she was DTF, and I knew she needed to take a rail home. So I should have met her at 6pm instead of 8 to give me the time to complete the seduction and sleep with her. Maybe I missed an escalation window and should have taken her home sooner, or I should have taken more of a risk and instead of staying at the bar for 2 hours, just chilled for an hour and go back to my place for the second hour, given the time constraint imposed. Maybe by not planning the date properly to end in sex, I turned her off, but that’s some weird PUA logic isn’t it? Surely if she likes me she’s willing to wait for sex lol.

Another thing is, I don’t understand why but if I don’t sleep with a girl on the first date, I don’t see them again for a second, even if we seem to hit it off on the first. Usually I sense they’re a bit reticent though, so it doesn’t come as a big surprise to me — in those three times I’m thinking of, their reasons for not pursuing a second date have been valid and later proven to be true, trust me on this. There was one case where I rejected a girl but she did want a second date though. In this case it comes as a total surprise that she is suddenly not interested in a second date. I believe I’m generally quite good at reading girls. This one baffles me. Should I be much more relentless about sleeping with girls on the first date? I actually recently chilled out and decided I don’t mind waiting till the second date but it just doesn’t seem to work!!

My personal takeaways from this are:
1. Plan the logistics. Don’t doom a date by starting too late when I know she lives somewhere that has an early last train home.
2. Following from the first, the logistics must be that the date can end at my place and that sex can happen if it is meant to happen. Sex must be pushed for on the first date.
3. Try to bounce to my place sooner.

Anyway… When I get her reason for not wanting a second date (if she doesn’t totally ghost me), I’ll update here.

[Manganiello]

Another thing is, I don’t understand why but if I don’t sleep with a girl on the first date, I don’t see them again for a second,

Well one part is that these are tinder chicks.

Another part is you need to scout what she likes to do and seed fun legitimately fun sounding second dates.

"Oh this place has the absolute best X. You have to try it. " and then that's where u go for the second date.

Also if you come across weird/unconfident on the first date. She mighttt fuck you on the first. But not like you enough to go on a second..

And if you do some thing she doesn't like. And that that thing is enough for her to not want to sleep with you. Why would she come out on the second date?



...

You fucked up the time. 8 was too late but you know that.


...

And other thing.

Never mind the signs. You're looking for too many signs.

Get your date volume up. Multiple dates each week. And run your date model.

Make it clear your a sexual being at the start of the date. Talk. Tell stories. Seed an idea for the second date. Increase the sexual tone throughout the date. Kino. Invite her back.

And just do that.

She didn't want to go to your place.
She didn't want to go to a 2nd date.

That's all the signs you need at this point.

[foducossy42]

Another part is you need to scout what she likes to do and seed fun legitimately fun sounding second dates.

Also if you come across weird/unconfident on the first date. She mighttt fuck you on the first. But not like you enough to go on a second.

I agree with this. I have gotten lazy with my game and haven’t been seeding date ideas, so I think the girl knows that the next date is just going to be sex and there isn’t something fun that she likes to do apart from that. Sure some girls might be down for that but others might want a better pretext or for it to be less obvious.

She didn't want to go to your place.
She didn't want to go to a 2nd date.

That's all the signs you need at this point.

I agree with the second, but I think she did want to go to my place just that logistics got in the way… but we’ve discussed that, and anyway it doesn’t matter what I think, what matters is that I fucked up something that had a high chance of succeeding. So moving on to never fucking up again…

Make it clear your a sexual being at the start of the date. Talk. Tell stories. Seed an idea for the second date. Increase the sexual tone throughout the date. Kino. Invite her back.

I definitely need to work on increasing the sexual tone throughout the date. I think the above commenter mentioned how to do that, and I’ll try to be braver about discussing sexual topics on the date. It should help me to pull faster. Do you have any other tips for that?

[Manganiello]

Tom torrero's book: 'Street Hustle' has a good date and sexual escalation model you can use.

Keep the date structure simple in your mind so you can execute it.

If you run a complicated date you'll mess it up. You need to be in the moment and have some simple points you can execute on.


For Tom Terroro's book:
- Gradually add more things to your date instead of trying to do everything in the book at once.
- Question game works great.
Ask a simple question than ask progressively more personal and more sexual questions.

[foducossy42]

Tom torrero's book: 'Street Hustle' has a good date and sexual escalation model you can use.

Keep the date structure simple in your mind so you can execute it.

Thanks, I’ve read it — will reread the relevant bits and see what I’ve not been doing. And add those to my dates.

One thing is that his date model seems to assume you’re probably not getting laid on the first date. His model takes a very long time, longer than I’ve ever really needed. Seems strange to me. But I can just ignore that bit.

[Manganiello]

Tom torrero's book: 'Street Hustle' has a good date and sexual escalation model you can use.

Keep the date structure simple in your mind so you can execute it.

Thanks, I’ve read it — will reread the relevant bits and see what I’ve not been doing. And add those to my dates.

One thing is that his date model seems to assume you’re probably not getting laid on the first date. His model takes a very long time, longer than I’ve ever really needed. Seems strange to me. But I can just ignore that bit.

I've only taken bits from it and added it into my existing dates where it seemed weak.

Copying the whole things unnessecary and counterproductive, you should learn how to do the necessary steps in your own way.