- Girls are Like a Leaf on the Wind
- Sometimes It's not Her Fault – Sometimes You're Cockblocking Yourself
- The Danger: You Think You're Making Progress when You're Talking to a Girl
- The Solution
- Girls Who Make it Easy to Have Sex with Them are Much More Fun Anyway
- Girls who Make You Wait will Likely Continue to Be a Pain
- The Takeaway
A coaching client recently mentioned to me that he’s had a couple girls he’s been messaging on Tinder for a month and it hasn’t led anywhere – they haven’t wanted to actually meet up with him for a date, even after weeks and weeks of conversation.
God damn is that relatable – most of us have wasted weeks talking to a girl, only for her to eventually stop responding seemingly out of nowhere. I’ve had this happen a million times when I was younger, thinking if I just kept talking to them, they’d eventually like me. I’ve been ghosted/had girls disappear more times than your mum has had “gentleman callers”.
It hurts because the more time you spend chatting to a girl, the more you become invested in her. You start thinking, “I like this girl, she’s got some cool hobbies, she seems like a nice person, we vibe well, we’ve shared some inside jokes, I’m attracted to her. I want to meet her.“
Which just makes it even more frustrating/painful when you don’t end up meeting – not only have you wasted a bunch of time, but you were emotionally-invested in her too.
Girls are Like a Leaf on the Wind
Call me an ace detective, but in my 30+ years on this Earth I’ve been able to figure out that girls can be pretty damn finicky at times – what they want changes from second to second, like leaves being blown around by the wind. Hell, they can change their minds about things mid-sentence. The longer you spend chatting to a girl without pushing for a meetup/sex, the more chance she’ll be turned off by something you say, or will get bored of your go-nowhere conversation.
It could be literally anything that puts her off, and it’s completely random and arbitrary. Girls have been put off by me saying the weirdest shit – and it changes from girl to girl. One girl will love if I say “I’m really into tennis.” Another girl might decide it’s a boring sport and just suddenly lose interest in talking to me. (Who doesn’t like tennis though? Fuck her.)
Not to mention it’s damn hard to keep a conversation interesting and engaging for any long period of time. The longer you talk, the more you’re making it harder on yourself by trying to entertain her with your “witty banter” and “killer lines”.
“But Andy, you total goose, you’re wrong! I don’t mind talking to girls for weeks, because I’m practicing my conversation skills & that will help me bang other girls!”
Nah. Spending ages talking to a girl doesn’t make you more likely to bang other girls – you’re not “getting good at talking to girls”. You’re only getting good at wasting your own time.
Generally speaking, the less talking you do before having sex, the better. Which is why you should always push for a meetup (and sex) as early as possible, and work on building a connection/talking/learning about each other’s hobbies/etc after you’ve smushed your private parts together. Do the dirty deed first, and then do the talking.
You can’t fully know a person until after you’ve had sex with them anyway. Before that, she’ll be holding up a mask, trying to make a good first impression and not say anything to put you off. After you bang, you’ll both be much more relaxed, since you’ve already been intimate.
Talking is much more enjoyable after you’ve just fucked each other’s brains out – there’s something really nice about basking in the afterglow together, her lying on your sweaty chest, the two of you chatting the night away. There’s no tension, no nervousness, no expectations. It’s… nice.
Sometimes It’s not Her Fault – Sometimes You’re Cockblocking Yourself
Oftentimes a girl literally wants to meet up with you, but you’re cockblocking yourself. You’re carrying on these long “Hi how are you today?” conversations over weeks because you’re too scared to pull the trigger and actually invite her out for a date. I get it – I used to be terrified to actually make the move I knew I had to make, because it sets you up for possible rejection. And the longer you’ve been talking to the girl, the less you’ll be able to handle her saying, “No thanks, I don’t want to meet”.
So you drag out conversations, hoping if you just keep talking to her either:
a) She’ll eventually invite you out for a date (which almost never happens – girls aren’t the ones who make the moves 99% of the time); or
b) You’ll keep making “progress” and eventually you’ll feel more at ease and will be able to make the move yourself.
The issue is, those two things rarely happen. Girls don’t make the move (it’s not their job to do so – it’s yours). And it’s entirely likely you feel less able to make a move the more you talk to a girl, because the longer you delay doing so, the more nervous you’ll become. The more you procrastinate asking her out, the more of a big deal you’re making it out to be, and the less likely you’ll follow through and actually do it.
This is probably something you’ve never considered, but I’ve had countless girls talk to me about how hurt they are that a guy they liked never actually ended up asking her out on a date. Or, they’ll go on a few dates, but he’ll never actually make a move and try to kiss her and have sex with her. Girls are always incredibly hurt by this. They’ll literally meet up with their closest girl friends, sit down at a cafe somewhere, let out a big sigh and ask, “Do you guys think I’m ugly? There’s this guy that hasn’t made a move on me yet.”
Girls absolutely hate it when a guy doesn’t make a move when he’s had ample opportunity – if enough time passes, she’ll start feeling like you’re not really that into her. It’ll feel like a rejection to her. You’re literally hurting a girl’s feelings – and insulting her femininity/attractiveness – if you never make a move on her. You’re putting her in the friendzone.
If you continue not making a move, at some point she’ll have had enough and will pragmatically decide not to see you for another date.
Girls want you to make a move on them. So stop wasting time talking, and just be direct and assertive & make a move.
The Danger: You Think You’re Making Progress when You’re Talking to a Girl
You need to start being more pragmatic and not letting yourself waste time talking to girls for ages – for your own personal sanity, if for nothing else. Because, you’re essentially breaking your own heart every time you talk to a girl for a month and don’t end up meeting her.
And that’s something you’ve engineered – you’re the one who’s decided to talk to her for a month. You’ve built up this romantic idea that the two of you “vibe” and you’re “compatible” and meeting would be “amazing”. Truth be told guys are the real romantics – we’re the ones who build up these idealised notions of how great it would be to meet this one particular girl. We get invested in the idea of her, and get swept up in the romance of it all. It’s all in your head – she’s likely nothing special (none of us are all that special – there’s 8 billion of us), and you’d benefit from cutting your losses and finding the next girl.
The worst thing of all is you think you’re making progress just because you’re talking to a girl. All you’re really doing is saying words to a girl and she’s saying words back to you. I know it feels like, “I’m getting closer to this girl, we’re getting to know each other better, I’m learning her likes and dislikes, we’re having funny conversations, I’m getting her more comfortable with me and she’ll be comfortable meeting up with me soon. I’m getting closer and closer to having sex with her.“
All of that is something you’ve invented in your head though – none of it is necessarily true. If she hasn’t met you within a week or two & has declined meeting with you (this assumes you’ve, you know, actually invited her out for a date) then she has no intention of meeting you. You’re not making any progress with her, and worse – you’re actually moving backwards. Time you’re wasting chatting with her is time you could be spending with other girls.
And in the cases where it’s your fault – as in, you haven’t actually asked her out on a date – you’re sending her the message that you’re not really serious about meeting up, and are happy to just waste time chatting online/via text. You’re creating a situation in which your time will almost certainly be wasted.
Look, I get it – cutting a girl off or risking rejection by actually asking her out on a date after weeks of chatting hurts. It’s the “sunken cost fallacy” – you feel like you’ve invested a tonne of time and you don’t want that to have been for nothing. It feels like you’ve been building something with this girl, and cutting it off can seem a bit harsh. “Andy, you’re overreacting – I’m happy to keep chatting to this girl, because there’s still a small chance she’ll meet me.”
You have to let that go. There’s a 5% chance she’ll meet you after wasting more weeks/months of your time – those are terrible odds. But if you go talk to 20 more women, it’s basically guaranteed you’ll meet up with one or a couple of them for a date (and likely even have sex with them if you make a move).
If you want further proof right from the horse’s mouth, here’s a post by a female on reddit/r/Tinder:
So this poor sap has been talking to her for a week, and at one point for four hours straight – the whole time thinking to himself, “This girl is awesome! We’re vibing, she really likes me, I really like her a lot – I’m making so much progress!“
The whole time she has absolutely no intention of meeting him, but is happy to keep wasting his time.
You need to be trying to get girls out on dates and then trying to have sex with them.
That is your goal.
It is your only goal.
Don’t worry about trying to “make the girl like you” or “forming a connection” or “building rapport”. Just get her out on a date, ASAP. The date is when you actually get to know someone properly, so save the conversation for face-to-face.
If there’s any girls you’ve been talking to for days/weeks and it’s not really going anywhere, do this:
- Get the girl’s number with: “You seem cool, we should grab a drink. What’s your number?”
- Once you have her number, text her a hello & immediately pitch a meetup. “Free tomorrow night at 6pm?”
- If she says she’s busy, pitch another time + date.
- If she’s busy then too, pitch a third time + date.
- If she says no to your third attempt, say: “All good, sounds like you’re super busy. I’m not going to keep chasing you, so when you’re free, shoot me a message and we’ll organise something.” Most of the time the girl will never text you, which is great – you’ve gotten rid of a timewaster.
If you’ve sent the final message to a girl & a few days/weeks later she sends a message that seems like she’s just wasting your time again – eg she says a simple “Hi” or “Good morning” or “How’s your day going?”, reply with “Hey. Ready to meet up now?” If she’s still non-committal & won’t agree to a date, she’s even more of a timewaster than we originally thought. Block/unmatch her immediately and move on. Life’s too short to waste time on girls who have no intention of ever meeting up with you, & who show active disrespect for your time.
And going forward, for new girls you talk to, follow the exact steps above. When you match with or meet a new girl, chat to her for a couple of messages (no more than 3 messages), then do steps 1-5 above. Remember, you’re not trying to “form a connection” over text, you’re trying to get her out on a date – that’s where you’ll form your connection.
Once you’re out on a date, don’t waste time in overly-long conversations there either. Talk for a bit until you’re both somewhat comfortable and like each other, then make a move on her. Hold her hand, try to kiss her, give her a cuddle, tell her to link arms with you as you walk, make out with her, play with her – touch her in some way. It doesn’t really matter what you do, but do something that isn’t just conversation. Invite her back to your apartment to hangout & then try to have sex with her.
Remember, you don’t have to be good at this, you’re allowed to be nervous and make mistakes… but you do have to push yourself out of your comfort zone and actually make a move on girls.
You should always be pushing for sex as early and often as you can, starting from the first date. You might need to try multiple times on a date if she’s taking a little while to warm up to you, or if you’re nervous and keep pussying out. It might take you a couple of dates before she’s comfortable banging you. It’s all good.
But for god sakes, don’t get caught up in really long conversations spread out over multiple dates, thinking that’s an efficient way of getting you closer to sex. It isn’t – trying to have sex is what gets you closer to having sex. Your goal is to move towards sex as soon as possible & cut off any timewasters, because the only way you’re going to get laid/find a quality girlfriend/etc is by talking to a tonne of girls. You can’t do that if you’re getting bogged down in long, drawn-out, go-nowhere conversations & wasting multiple dates not moving towards sex.
Your job is to talk waste as little time as possible on girls who just want to waste your time and never actually meet you. Every single second you spend talking to one of those girls is emotional and mental investment you’re expending. It takes energy, it kinda hurts a bit – that’s going to drag down your ability to get on with your life and talk to other girls. It’ll affect your general energy, you’ll have less time and energy for your friends,less energy for the gym, less desire to go talk to more girls.
There’s also a very real chance you can become bitter if you let it drag on for long enough and with enough girls over a long enough time period. You’ll eventually start believing things like “All girls are just out to waste my time”. Or even more nefarious – “I’m undateable and no girls want to have sex with me”.
No, you’re not undateable – you’ve just been wasting time on girls who never planned on meeting you. Or, you’ve been cockblocking yourself by not making a move. If you get rid of timewaster girls as soon as possible, & actually make moves on the girls you talk to, you’ll free up time and emotional energy you can put towards the women who do want to actually meet up with you and have fun with you. You should be filtering out the timewasters, and focusing on finding the cool, awesome girls who are down to meet guys.
Girls Who Make it Easy to Have Sex with Them are Much More Fun Anyway
Another reason you should be seeking out girls who make it easy to have sex with you (rather than timewasters) is because you’ll find you enjoy your time with the laid-back girls much more. If you’re a newbie this will sound counter-intuitive: but you’ll actually respect girls who put out quicker – because they’re being real with you and not playing games with you. You’ll respect that they didn’t fuck you around and make you wait an arbitrary amount of time.
I’ve said as much to girls I’ve had sex with on the first date – “I respect you for not playing games, and for being real. You didn’t try to use sex as a bargaining chip, you didn’t use it to ‘extract’ a relationship from me or get something from me. You just wanted to have sex with me because you’re attracted to me, I’m attracted to you, and sex is fun. That’s cool.”
These girls are so much more fun to hangout with – they’re more laid back and will almost never manipulate you or use you. Here’s some text screenshots from girls I’ve banged, to show you how easy they made it for me to have sex with them.
Girls who Make You Wait will Likely Continue to Be a Pain
Focusing more on girls who waste your time and make you wait: If a girl is wasting your time and making you talk to her for weeks on end before she even thinks of meeting with you – that’s not going to suddenly just change if she ever does meet up with you. She’s a timewaster now, so she’ll be a timewaster in the future.
If it takes you 4 weeks of talking before you even meet up for a date, then chances are she’ll make you talk to her for 5 hours on the date before she even lets you kiss her. She sure as hell won’t come back to your apartment on the first or second date. She’ll likely make you wait some arbitrary amount of time before you even think about having sex with her – it’ll be like drawing blood from a stone. No thanks.
Not to mention, if you do have sex with her, the magic will have been taken out of it. You’ll feel like she’s just “giving you what you’re owed” – you’ll feel like you’ve spent weeks/months talking to her, so of course she owes you sex by now, as a bare minimum. That doesn’t exactly sound like a healthy sexual relationship, does it?
Compare that to a girl you meet who’s super into you and has sex with you on the 1st or 2nd date. It’ll be spontaneous, passionate, full of lust and desire. She’ll want you, and you’ll fucking want her. That’s the best type of sex – the sex that didn’t take 4 weeks of grinding conversations and weeks of boring, platonic dates.
The girl who waits 4 weeks/several months to have sex with you is not going to be a passionate, crazy girl in bed. She’s not a sexual person; otherwise she would have been more keen to have sex with you. Sex obviously isn’t that important to her, and those girls end up being the worst type of girls to have in your bed. They’re not usually open to new experiences, the sex isn’t exciting and spontaneous, she’ll usually have a list of “rules” you have to follow in order for her to graciously give you the gift of her glorious gash. (Look at that absolutely astounding and amazing alliteration). All of that sounds like a boring business deal, rather than fun, wild sex.
Sex is supposed to be spontaneous, fun, exciting; it’s two people who are attracted to each other and can’t keep their dirty hands off each other.
I know better than anyone the pain and frustration that comes from thinking you’re making progress with a girl over a few weeks, then having her lose interest and stop responding. I fucked around for over a decade before I finally got my shit together on this issue. I wasted tens of thousands of hours, I poured my heart and soul into being “interesting” and “funny” and “a good conversationalist” – all for very little reward. I was so frustrated I often broke down in tears; “Oh look, here’s yet another girl wasting my time”.
You have a very good head start over me; you’re reading this article right now. Don’t be a total knobhead like I was; don’t repeat my mistakes by wasting time with month-long conversations. Push for a meetup and then push for sex as early as you possibly can with every new girl you date.
Another piece of gold! Definitely the case (in my limited sample size) that “timewasters” -> less fun in bed.
Looking forward to your retention guide after reading the comments.
Another great article, Andy! Loved the part about expressing appreciation to the girls who don’t play games, but instead keep it real and just enjoy the physical attraction and sex with you. I’m definitely stealing that line 😉
I’d be grateful to you if you could share your thoughts on the following:
(I skimmed through your archives, but couldn’t find anything on this.)
For me, having the balls to ask a girl out and escalate quickly isn’t too much of a problem. I’ve always had sex on the first date with a girl.
What I struggle with is if I want to keep the girl around afterwards for a casual relationship. I’ve had the “You’re such a player” thrown at me many times and I suspect my player vibe might be a major reason why these girls only end up as ONS, even though the sex is always great – and sometimes there is even a nascent emotional connection.
My idea is, if I want to keep a girl around casually, instead of having sex with the girl on the first date, have a first date where we just grab coffee/drinks (max. 60 minutes), and then on the second date invite her to meet me straight at my place. Do you think that’s a waste of time or a viable strategy?
In general, do you have strategies on how you “convert” one night stands into fuckbuddies (or more), or do you approach these girls where you want more differently from the get-go?
Thanks for your time, man!
I’m in the process of writing a huge 7-part Tinder guide, and I’ll be covering retention. Here’s some brief thoughts:
Retention has always been easy for me, and I realise that’s not the case for most guys. It’s the one thing I never sucked at (I sucked at basically everything else and had to start from absolutely zero).
Talk about having sex super quick means girls will be (slightly) less likely to stick around, because the sex was a little less meaningful. However, I exclusively have sex with girls on the first date – my Tinder profile makes it clear I’m looking for sex. And the vast majority of girls want to see me multiple times – usually for months or years. So sex on the first date certainly doesn’t massively hinder girls sticking around. You can try slowing it down if you want, but it’s not necessary.
There’s 1000 things that influence how likely a girl is to see you again’ I can’t cover them all here in a comment (but I go in depth in the guide I’m writing). If I keep girls around EASILY when I bang within 20 minutes of meeting them, and you can’t keep girls around, then there’s clearly things I’m doing that you’re not. Here’s a couple of things:
– Do you hang out with them after and cuddle/talk? I hang for an hour after sex – if it’s a girl I like, even longer.
– Do you fuck them good? I don’t mean hard (that helps), I mean foreplay, teasing, driving her wild, making her beg you to fuck her (and saying, “No, you have to wait a little while longer”)?
– Do you walk them back to the train station/car/etc after sex?
– Do you share parts of yourself and your life, or are you closed off? I talk about my job, my friends, my family, everything – I’m very open and accessible.
– Do you send them a “That was fun” or “That was really hot” text after sex? (Either later that night or the next morning)
But the biggest of all: Are you the kind of person a girl would want to spend more time with? Do you rate yourself as a decent dude, are you semi-interesting, etc?
If you were a girl, would you want to see you again? Answer that question first.
EDIT: More thoughts: If you’re getting “You’re such a player!” a lot, she’s telling you she thinks you’re a player and nothing else. I’m clearly a fucking player – I tell girls I want sex, I tell them I’m seeing multiple girls, I even send them a photo of another one of my girls tied up before I meet them (I do this with every girl). But they see I’m also a cool guy to hang out with, I’m very open and I share a lot about myself. I make it clear sex isn’t the only thing I’m after.
And if you want to do a 30min coaching call to go more 1-on-1 with what might be hurting your own retention, hit me up.
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed and thoughtful reply, Andy! I really appreciate it, mate.
You gave me some good food for thought and I’m already seeing where I can improve things.
Also, just subscribed to your email list. You take a lot of action, but you’re also clearly self-reflective, which is why your insight is fire!
Can’t wait for that article coming up.
Keep it up, G.
Appreciate it, mate.
Thanks for this article … it is probably one of the hardest concept to internalize for us guys lol
Damn straight. Takes a lot to be able to “let it go”.
“graciously give you the gift of her glorious gash”
Well thanks God, means a lot coming from you.