UPDATE 2022 – Here’s a video of me going even deeper on everything in this article:
One of my most important life philosophies is the concept of “You and Me”. It underpins all of my interactions with girls (and people in general). It’s at the forefront of my mind with every sentence I say to every person I ever talk to. It goes something like this:
In every interaction you have with someone, you’ll quickly figure out you’re either on the same team, or working against each other.
That is to say, it’ll either be “you and me”, or it’ll be “you vs me”. You’re either working towards a common goal (or helping each other achieve your own individual goals), or one/both of you are trying to achieve your goal at the expense of what the other person wants.
This is especially pertinent when it comes to relationships with the opposite sex. When guys first start getting laid, there’s very much a “me vs women” mindset – especially if you’ve never had much luck with women in the past. It’s very easy to see them as the enemy, especially when you get rejected. Rather than seeing it as, “This girl just isn’t interested in me” it’s easy to frame it as, “All women are trying to screw me over” or “most women reject me” or “women really suck”.
I fell victim to this myself and became pretty damn bitter. I was convinced women were nothing but wet holes; I didn’t think they had anything else to give. I posted this on a forum back in late 2015:
I was at war with girls; in my mind I was in a battle with all womankind. I thought of them as the enemy, and I was always trying to win. If I got a hint a girl was about to reject me, I took immense pleasure in quickly rejecting her. “Hah, you can’t fire me – I quit!” Oftentimes I’d reject perfectly nice and cute girls for no reason at all – just to exert some dominance and convince myself I’d somehow “won” because I got to reject them.
I was also intentionally a dick a lot of the time, massively playing up the “badboy” traits just because I could. I cringe now when I look back over my old journals and forum posts where I’d brag about girls I’d led on, girls I’d rejected, girls I’d hurt. I was incredibly insecure – insecure about my looks, about my own worth, about whether girls really liked me, about whether girls thought I was attractive, about whether girls wanted to have sex with me. I was lashing out because of that insecurity, and taking it out on girls who’d done nothing wrong to me.
I used to play silly games with girls – “negging” them (a mild insult so she’ll “think you’re cool” or some shit). I used to intentionally take hours/days to reply to texts, so she’d think I was “super busy and super important”. I’d ignore direct questions from girls, giving them a silly answer. I intentionally acted like a dickhead, thinking it was what I was supposed to do (thanks, Pickup Artist community…)
All of that just resulted in me ending up with girls who were happy being manipulated. Any girls with a modicum of self-respect saw me as the childish manipulator I was and ran from me (as they should have). The only ones who stuck around were the ones who also enjoyed manipulating and playing games, resulting in this fucked up “me vs you” dynamic with every single girl where we were both trying to “get one over” on the other person. It was a zero-sum game where one person had to win and the other had to lose.
But it Wasn’t Just Me
Everything I wrote above is extremely common behaviour from guys who don’t have much experience with women. Dare I say most guys who first start getting laid think they have to act like dicks in order to get women. Or at the very least, act cold and distant, keeping up their guard so the girl doesn’t screw them over. Yes, badboys do get laid more, but it’s because they’re confident, good-looking & have a “I don’t give a fuck” attitude – not because they’re raging dickheads. They get laid in spite of being a dick.
As I got more experience under my belt and developed a sense of self-confidence, I started to develop a sense of entitlement. As in, I feel entitled to have lots of women in my life. These days I know I can get laid whenever I want, with as many girls as I want (as long as I put in the effort). This confidence has completely erased all the insecurity I used to feel. I no longer feel insecure about my looks, or about whether women will like me. I know women like me – quite a lot of women like me.
So now I’m in a position where I have no reason to act like a dick to girls. I have nothing to prove, there’s no bitterness or anger or insecurity or jealousy causing me to lash out. All that’s been replaced with joy, love and good memories from all the girls I’ve been with. Now when I’m with girls, I’m a whole lot more chilled, I’m a hell of a lot nicer and empathetic towards them (I do my best to mentor girls I date – especially younger chicks) and I see relationships/dating/sex for what it is – I’m just looking for cool girls to bring into my life and share experiences with. I’m not at war anymore.
Every girl I date now, I very much have the mindset of “you and I are on the same team together. We’re not trying to screw each other over, or ‘win'”.
Because of this new attitude, I’m now 100% upfront and honest with absolutely every girl I date/bang. I’ll answer every question they ask me 100% honestly – even the ones I used to lie about like, “Are you looking for sex?” and “How many other girls are you currently sleeping with?”
The good thing about being 100% honest is you naturally filter in girls who appreciate and respect your honesty, and can handle the truth. You’ll filter out girls who like being lied to and who like lying to guys (read: emotionally-immature girls). You completely eliminate all the games a lot of girls usually play. You’ll never be emotionally-manipulated. No girls will ever be passive-aggressive with you. They’ll never distrust you, or try to sneak information out of you, etc. They won’t “shit test” you. You’ll almost never have any arguments, because there’s no reason to – if you’re both always 100% upfront, then there’s nothing being hidden from either of you, and nothing that can build up to a fight.
A lot of “pickup artists” – and hell, a lot of normal guys in general – talk about “bantering” with girls and “push/pull” and teasing/negging the girls. A tonne of guys have it in their head that the best way to have sex with a girl is to pretend you don’t want to have sex with her, whilst simultaneously trying to have sex with her. Since it’s obvious you’re manipulating her, she’ll naturally throw out a “shit test” like “Do you only want me for sex?” to which you’re supposed to completely lie to her and say, “Woah tiger, who says I want to have sex with you? You’re not really my type anyway.”
But in playing these games, and lying to girls, you’re filtering in girls who want to play games with you, and who are happy to be lied to. Who the hell wants to stick their penis in someone who is completely fine with being lied to? That’s insane. And I spent years doing that, because I thought “this is what you’re supposed to do to get laid.” I saw women as people you’re supposed to “trick” into having sex with you.
The biggest problem with lying to girls and playing these games and trying to trick them into sex is there’s a high chance you’ll have to battle her as she tries to wrestle back the power. Eg you’ll say, “We’ll go grab a drink, meet me at ____ bar.”
She’ll say “Can we meet at a coffee place instead?”
Or you’ll say, “Let’s grab a drink. What’s your number?”
To which she’ll reply, “Actually, can we talk on here a little more first?”
Because she knows you’re trying to sneak your way into her panties, she’ll do everything she can to delay that (so she doesn’t look like a “slut”) by putting up as many roadblocks as she can. Your every conversation will be marred by this weird power dynamic where you’re both trying to outsmart and outmaneuver the other person. It’ll feel like you’re trying to get blood out of a stone.
That’s no way to have good sex. Do you really want to have sex with somebody who fought against you every step of the way? Good sex comes from finding a girl who wants to have sex with you; aka a girl who’s on the same team as you. As The Rational Male so eloquently puts it in “Wait for it?“:
A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck.
Her Treating You Like the Enemy
Some girls will be naturally resistant to the “we’re on the same team” idea, because it might not be something she’s used to. Some girls put up a defence and don’t let their guard down with guys; possibly because she’s been hurt in the past & is terrified of being hurt again. You can instantly tell if a girl is treating you like the enemy because she’ll come right out and say it – eg “We’re not having sex tonight, mister” or “You better buy me a drink if you want to get in my pants.” With these sort of statements, she’s treating you like the enemy, like your wants/needs (to have sex with her) is wrong and in opposition to what she wants.
In many cases, you can extend an olive branch by telling her about the idea of being on the same team. Just tell her you’re sick of playing games in relationships, & you’ve decided to always be real with everyone you date/sleep with. Tell her you’re dropping all the BS. A lot of girls will instantly drop their guard when you’re this honest and vulnerable, and will often say, “Damn, me too. I’m sick of having to play games when it comes to dating; I wish I could just be honest & stop having to pretend all the time.”
Any girls who don’t drop their guard, well, good riddance. They’re not worth your time, because they’re going to make every step of your interaction with them very difficult. I never keep banging girls who don’t eventually come over to my side and embrace the “You and Me” thing. I don’t like having sex with “the enemy” so to speak. It feels weird.
Being Upfront from the Start
These days I’m 100% upfront from the very first moment I meet a girl. When I first get her number, before we even meet up, I’ll tell her I’m looking for something fairly casual at the moment, but am open to more with the right person. I make it very clear I’m looking for sex at the start.
Obviously this gets me way more rejections than if I was “subtle” and “Mr Pickup Artist”, pretending I was looking for dates/relationships. But I’d much rather more rejections up front, because it means I’m left with girls who respect my honesty and will give me the same level of honesty in return.
I never run into “last minute resistance” (when the girl decides at the last minute she doesn’t want to have sex with you – even as you’re taking her panties off) because the girls already trust me and know I’m not trying to snake my way into her pants. After all, I’ve already told her I want to have sex with her. There’s no manipulation, no “surprises” – all our cards have already been laid out on the table. I’m not trying to “trick” her into sex, so she has no reason to panic/freak out at the last second and change her mind.
When you’ve had sex with a girl a few times, it’ll become very obvious when she’s starting to like you – I’ve found most girls start showing signs of liking me after about the 3rd time we bang. Because all of my relationships start off very casual (fuckbuddies/friends with benefits), the girls assume they’re “not supposed to catch feelings”.
If you’re in a similar situation and have seen a girl a few times, when she does get feelings, her instinct will be to tell herself, “Oh my god I’m doing this all wrong, this is supposed to be just sex and I’m not supposed to get feelings, what the fuck is wrong with me. I bet he doesn’t have feelings for me, so I’m a fuckup.” Which only makes her shut down and start to see you as “the enemy” so to speak. She’ll withdraw, keep you at arms-length to protect herself, you won’t be as close as you were, the sex will feel like she’s holding back, and the relationship will start to feel weird.
I’ve been through this countless times, so now I pre-empt it and prevent it from happening. The second or third time I bang a girl, if it’s really obvious she’s cool and I like her and I’ll probably keep seeing her, I’ll have a conversation with her (usually after sex). I’ll say, “By the way, at some point you’ll catch feelings for me, because it’s inevitable when you spend enough time with someone. Just don’t shut down and feel like you’re ‘not supposed to get feelings’. Just be real with me, tell me you’re catching feelings and we’ll talk about it. Don’t feel like you have to keep that shit to yourself; I’d rather you tell me.”
9 out of 10 girls you say this to will end up telling you a few weeks/months later, “You were definitely right about the whole feelings thing, I definitely feel like I’m starting to really like you.” Then we’ll talk about it, I’ll tell them I like them too, and it’s all good. Much better than the alternative where things get more and more awkward and the girl pulls away more and more to save herself from getting hurt, eventually ghosting you with you having no idea it was because she liked you.
Breaking the Ice
You’ll find most girls you date will start off in a “me vs you” mindset – 99% of people do that by default. It’s a very normal thing to have your guard up when you first meet someone new. But you can cut your way through that if you’re persistent and very patient with the girls. All it takes is for you to drop your mask and just be real with them. I have these sorts of conversations with every girl I bang, usually after the first or second time I bang her, when you’re cuddling after sex, basking in the afterglow (everybody’s more relaxed and open-minded immediately after sex).
I’ll start it off by maybe sharing something about my past, or asking about her past, or saying something like, “By the way, I’ll always be pretty damn open and real with you. I hate playing games, I can’t stand when you have that weird fuckbuddy dynamic where you both hold back, try to remain poised and in control all the time, and you never actually get to know each other properly. I find that stupid – what’s the point of chilling with someone if you’re going to treat each other like the enemy? I’d rather just be on the same team, being real with each other all the time. There’s nothing I’d ever judge you for; you can tell me pretty much anything.”
That is usually more than enough to get her to soften up. 9 times out of 10 they’ll literally soften; her shoulders will drop, she’ll let out a big sigh, you’ll see her visibly relax. They usually reciprocate by saying, “You’re absolutely right, I hate when I can’t be myself and I have to hide my true feelings/thoughts. I’ve done that in the past a lot and even with some of my friends I feel like they’d judge me if they knew the real me.”
From that point on you’ll find things are just easier; she’ll never play games with you, you’ll never have to wonder what she’s thinking, she’ll never try and play that “power wrestling” game where all her words are covert. She’ll always say what she means.
Bare in mind because she likely hasn’t “dropped the mask” and just been real very often before (most people haven’t), it might take her a few reminders for it to become a habit. She’ll default to the “I should always show only my best side at all times” mindset and you’ll have to gently remind her it’s ok to just be vulnerable and real. Example:
Being real with a girl also means she’ll tell you when other feelings come up – for example if she’s ever jealous of you seeing multiple girls. I’ve had this conversation a million times with different girls: She’ll randomly say one day, “Hey… I know you said I should always be honest with you. I found an earring in your bathroom and I know it’s dumb because you’ve already been honest with me and told me you’re seeing other girls, but seeing the earring just made me feel jealous and insecure and I didn’t know what to do about it. I’m sorry.” That vulnerability/honesty makes you want to wrap them up in a big hug, tell them it’s perfectly fine to feel jealous, and talk about it until they feel better. After that, without fail, they’re always a hell of a lot more into you and even more honest and real with you going forward. (In rare cases they decide the jealousy is too much for them and break it off; but even then, it’s always amicable because you’re both being honest and real with one another).
Now imagine if she didn’t feel you and her were on the same team. She’d find the earring, get very insecure and jealous about it, maybe ask covert/subtle questions to try and probe and see if you’re fucking other girls. If she’s super jealous/crazy, maybe she’ll try and go through your phone when you’re not looking. Maybe she’ll just withdraw and eventually fade out of your life, and you’ll never know why she ghosted you. None of that is beneficial to you; it’s just unnecessary drama. Not to mention she’ll be feeling like shit for no good reason, when you could have easily avoided it by making sure she was on your team.
Being Upfront in Relationships
Once you have a regular fuckbuddy or a full-on relationship, you should aim to keep it “you and I on the same team”. I’ll talk at length with girls about being on the same team, and that I expect her to always tell me everything. I reassure her there’ll be nothing I’d ever judge her for. I also make sure to share things with her and always make sure I include her in my life.
You should go one step further and even share the negative stuff, rather than letting it build up into a real issue. If you’re annoyed at something she’s done, tell her. Don’t bottle it up. Literally say, “I’m annoyed because you did _____. I’m telling you so we’re on the same team, because not telling you is even worse. I’d rather be honest with you.”
Over time she’ll learn to do the same, and will tell you whenever she’s sad/annoyed about something, etc.
This communication and being on the same team is even more important if you have an open relationship/are sleeping with other girls. Jealousy will naturally come up, and it’s super important you make it clear she can always tell you when she’s feeling jealous or insecure. The first few times you might have to “force” the conversation – I’ve had to literally say, “Do you ever feel jealous or insecure about the other girls I see?” After you have the conversation a few times, you’ll find she gets more comfortable mentioning it to you any time jealousy comes up, and over time it becomes less and less of a big deal. Eventually she’ll likely get to a point where she says, “I’m jealous sometimes but I don’t really care any more, because we’ve talked about it so many times and I know you’ll always listen to my insecurities. So I feel secure.”
My main girl and I were talking a few weeks ago about some of her friends and their relationships, and how some of them argue quite a bit. My girl and I never fight, and I mentioned that to her – “Did it ever occur to you that you and I have never had a single argument or even been remotely angry/annoyed at each other?”
She said, “Yes, I’ve thought about it a few times. I just don’t see why I would ever be upset at you though, for any reason. Because you’ve made it so clear I can talk to you about absolutely anything. There’s no reason anything would ever go wrong if I can always talk to you.”
Newbies Can Take This Advice Too
This advice applies to guys who don’t have a lot of experience – you shouldn’t repeat my mistake of treating girls like the enemy when I was inexperienced. A question inexperienced guys ask me all the time is, “I haven’t had much sex, and I’m meeting this girl tomorrow night. How do I pretend I know what I’m doing so she thinks I’m experienced?”
My advice is always the same – you’re supposed to be on the same team, so bring her onto your team for fuck’s sake. Be 100% honest with her and say, “Hey by the way, I’ll be fully open and honest with you – I haven’t had a lot of experience. I’m kinda nervous, but super excited about tomorrow night, I think we’re gonna have a hell of a lot of fun.” Stop trying to lie to girls by pretending to be experienced and perfect if you’re not. Drop the mask and just be real. Life is a WHOLE lot easier that way.
This All Applies to Other People, Too
It’s not just girls you should apply this mindset to – I apply “you and me” to everyone in my life. I don’t have any friends who aren’t on the same team as me. I even make sure my family are on the same team – eg instead of hiding my mistakes/failures from them, or trying to be perfect in their eyes, etc – I’ll just be real and say “You know, sometimes I have this really strong desire to put on a brave face and try and act perfect in front of you, because I don’t want to disappoint my parents.” That’ll spark a conversation with them where they say, “Yeah we have the same thing, maybe even stronger because we’re your parents. There’s a lot of pressure to try and look like we have all the answers, it’s hard being strong for you and your sister all the time.” Boom, now you’re on the same team & you can be real with each other.
Get everyone onto your team – make it “You and Me” with everybody in your life, especially girls. You’ll find life a whole lot easier when you drop the mask and just be real with people.
Update 2023: A relevant podcast:
Very good article, I have a question though, do you also bring up what you want in cold approaches, and if so, how do you bring it up?
I guess it would be something along the lines of, (after getting her number), “Just letting you know I’m looking mainly for sex right now, I’m down with a more emotional relationship being created in the process, but do keep that in mind for when I text you.”
What do you think?
Also, and this might sound like an excuse, but being only 18 in a quite conservative country, I feel like being direct might kill 99% of my chances, I think that your answer to this would be “yeah, but at least that 1% is a group which will be on your team,” and yes I guss I agree and that makes sense.
Looking forward to a response on my first question,
Nice article Andy,
Yep – you answered your own question. Go out and try being direct, and find that 1%.
The text – “I’m looking for mainly sex” you could also phrase it like: “By the way I’m looking for something casual, but ongoing, and open to more with the right person”.
But it’s up to you.
About the jealousy conversation; eventually she is probably going to tell you that she does in fact feel jealous, but how should you respond? Of course you don’t want to lie and say something like “oh baby you’ll always be my favorite” or something like that but should you really just say “yeah i know you feel that way but tough titty, deal with it”?
I’ll always advocate honesty. These articles might help:
In this specific situation, when a girl tells me she’s jealous, we just start talking about it. You don’t need to have all the answers, you don’t need to “say the perfect thing”, it doesn’t matter if you don’t know exactly what to say. Just be real with her and talk about it – tell her exactly where you’re at, and what you want. eg, if you only want something casual: “That’s completely normal to feel like that. I’ll be real with you: I like you, I like seeing you, and I have a lot of fun hanging out with you. I’m definitely not looking for monogamy and I plan on seeing other girls for a while – that won’t change any time soon. But I’m not going to force you to stay, so if you ever feel like you’re not into it any more, just tell me and we’ll talk about it. But as long as you’re happy to keep seeing me, and I’m happy to keep seeing you, we’ll keep banging.”
I talk more about that here:
So in short: Just be honest and tell her exactly what you’re looking for. If she’s on board with it, awesome! If not, she’ll leave and you’ll move on and talk to the next girl. You can’t force somebody to stay if they don’t really want to:
One of the best I have read.
The idea of “You and Me” instead of “You vs Me” is awesome.
Not just apply to romantic, but also work and friendship.
For years, i have been lying, hiding, pretending in front of people.
Try to impress people, try to get her like me.
Few years back, two book have completely changed the way I see both romantic and relationship in general.
Models by Mark Manson, Radical Honesty by Brad Blanton.
Growing up, I never imagine we can be 100% honest with girls.
The idea of Honesty hit me pretty hard. And I had my very first fuck buddy back then after reading and applying things learnt from Models.
This is absolutely great one Andy, thanks for sharing this.
Thanks mate, glad you got something out of it.
Mark Manson writes good shit; I’ve linked to quite a few of his posts in my articles.
“Obviously this gets me way more rejections than if I was “subtle” and “Mr Pickup Artist”, pretending I was looking for dates/relationships. But I’d much rather more rejections up front, because it means I’m left with girls who respect my honesty and will give me the same level of honesty in return.”
And that is the problem. Unless you are someone who already has a sexual abundance and a lot of experience with girls, you’ll see that quantity of girls you are banging would plummet to the bottom. And no, I don’t think it is about honesty or insecurity. It is about society and social rules. If you try this approach in any conservative country then you can forget about having sex. I don’t think that you’ll be able to find a girl who wouldn’t run from you after hearing your honesty in India or, if we talk about western countries, Spain. You definitely would be bumped in China and in Muslim countries you’d better never doing anything like this, try to guess why.
The subtleness of pickup exists because society as a whole isn’t exactly fond of the idea of casual sex. Even in the USA only a small % of girls are sexually open and can consider being fuckbuddies with someone. In my mother country (Russia) we don’t even have any word similar in meaning to FWB of fuckbuddy.
My point is – the girls who reject you after hearing your honest intentions aren’t “insecure” or “have low self-esteem”, they are just more conservative. And let’s be honest, most girls want to find a decent boyfriend and not to bang random strangers. This is why there can’t be real “you and me” with most girls because she wants a relationship and you want something casual. Of course, there is a way out of this situation without lying about wanting a relationship with her. Just avoid talking about this until she is invested enough and when she experienced amazing sex and started to fall for you, then she wouldn’t care about social rules so much and will accept your terms without much resistance. This is how most experience PUA and redpill guys do it in the first place.
I disagree – particularly about avoiding being upfront and waiting until she falls for you. I’m not here to argue though; I think if you’re not into upfront honest, my philosophy/site isn’t going to be for you mate.
Man I am mind blown this is what has been missing all this time. I saw the beginning of PUA back in David Deangelo times and a decade later as it converted into the manosphere I knew it would evolve past its jaded women hating infancy. You simply cannot be a healthy man and hate half the world population… I have been looking for something that transcends PUA but didn’t know how it would look, I think you’re cutting it VERY close! Andy I don’t think even you understand the long term impact your writing is going to have as more people start to adopt these healthier attitudes towards dating, sex, and relationships. I do have some questions that are vague in your article:
-When a woman ask if you’re sleeping with other woman, how exactly do you respond? I don’t imagine you’re saying, “Yes I slept with another woman last night”
-Game teaches that if you’re spinning plates you don’t respond to a woman except 1-3 times a week… You have glossed over this. Are you responding to women every time they text? If so, you’re phone must be blowing up like crazy.
-You’re always going for sex on the first date?
-Do you verbalize to all the women you sleep with that they are in fuckbuddy status? When do they usually ask you to “define the relationship?”
Thanks mate, appreciate the kind words. Honesty & ethics are going to be a cornerstone of this site – I recently added “Honesty” as a heading in the menu at the top.
I’ve actually already written articles that cover your questions:
Yes I am 100% honest when a girl asks if I’m sleeping with other girls. Why the hell would you lie about that? You’re going to look another human being in the eyes and tell them something to deceive them, when they had the courage to ask you the hard question? I get that honesty is hard at first (it’s something you have to work on – I sucked at it at first). But if we only ever did what was easy or convenient, the world would be a shit place.
Ignore the “spinning plates” rules. Obviously don’t text a girl 100 times a day when you haven’t even had sex with her yet, but once you guys have banged a few times and she likes you and you like her, why would you play games? You’re only playing yourself. Text as much as you want. No, my phone doesn’t blow up like crazy because I’m busy – I don’t have time to answer every text immediately. I answer it within a couple hours, so girls figure out “Oh, he’ll never ignore me – but he’s busy so I have to expect he’ll take a few hours”.
I also make a point of only banging/dating girls who have their own lives going on – it’s always been a huge turnoff to me when a girl has too much time to sit around texting. Since I don’t bang/date any of those girls, I don’t have to worry too much about my phone blowing up.
If a new girl does text me a tonne, and doesn’t seem to get the hint, I’ll be real with her and say: “Hey just a heads up I’m crazy busy so let’s text a little less. Don’t take it personally, I’m happy to keep seeing you, etc – I’m just not a big texter”.
Yes, always sex on the first date. Exceptions are virgins; I’m happy to fool around a bit on the first date, second date maybe finger her or whatever she’s ready to try, maybe bang on the third date (there’s no “rules”; depends on how much fun she’s having. It’s not much fun if I have to force her). I wasn’t always this way; used to sometimes wait til the 8th date when I was a newbie.
I tell girls on Tinder I have a girlfriend. Before we meet for a date, I send them BDSM photos of other girls I’ve done photoshoots with and say “Here’s a few girls I’m seeing now. If you’re good, I’ll introduce you to them.” I tell them as early as humanly possible that I’m seeing other girls, because there’s no worse feeling than being led on.
Defining relationship I wrote about:
I’m having a GLL resurgence (going on POF/OKC and bar attending weekly) and found your website recently. I am really enjoying your unique takes on steps within the GLL community and your own path. Reading this hits me hard because I’ve always felt that having that back-and-forth “innocent dishonesty” was a requirement to getting laid and seeming confident. Actually, recently there was a Coffee Meets Bagel app match I had that asked to know more about my interests upon me opening and I gave her a controversial answer just to feel better about shutting her down to “screen her out before she screened me out”. I told myself I was being a man doing it, but I really didn’t feel like it. It just reminded me a lot of what you typed here is all. Thanks for sharing the insight and I’d be interested in including some of your honesty within my technique going forward.
One of the few things I vehemently disagree with Good Looking Loser on is his stance on retaining girls. He advocates lying and stringing them along, which is nuts to me – it just leads to a tonne more drama. (Not to mention being deceitful is a shitty thing to do to someone).
Honesty is the best policy. (I’m writing an article on this right now).
This post has clearly laid out the benefits of 100% honest communication, which is something I feel most people both aspire to and yet are deathly afraid of. I am curious as to what your take is on GLL’s retention guide (https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/index/retention-fuck-buddies). When compared to your advice, many of his techniques seem manipulative and deliberately deceitful, especially the bits about limiting communication, the DTR “talk”, and sending mixed messages. Do you think there’s ever a time and place to dial back a bit or is honesty always the way?
I should add that I went on a Tinder date just a couple hours after reading this article and made a point to be more open and honest about my intentions, and she was down with it. So I’ll definitely try to get more comfortable with it going forward.
The site looks great so far; looking forward to more content. I can’t wait for your BDSM guides.
That’s one thing I disagree with Chris on. This article is my alternative to how he handles the “Where is this going?” question:
You can be honest or dishonest whenever you want, it’s your life. My goal in life is to be happy, and my mission with this site is to help guys be happy. Lying/stringing girls along just made me feel like shit, and added a tonne of unnecessary drama to my life.
I followed Chris’ retention guide to the letter, and I always felt fucking awful seeing the look on a girl’s face as I used the “I don’t want to put a label on it, I like where things are going.” They always knew I was full of shit, but because Chris’ lines sound reasonable, she can’t really call you out on it. So she stays for another few months, hoping and praying you’ll magically want a relationship, even though she knows it’s incredibly unlikely.
Why would I want to manipulate a girl I’m banging/dating? Chris’ guide works, but that doesn’t mean it’s a healthy way of operating.
My retention guide is basically:
Tell the girl “If we both like how things are going, we’ll keep seeing each other. If that ever changes, just let me know and we’ll talk about it.”
That simple sentence (and repeating it a few times later on) is all you need. It works. (My current girl has been with me a year. Had another 2 girls bang me for a year, and many 6 month casual relationships).
Re: your Tinder date, fuck yeah. Being more open and honest is so fucking refreshing on dates. It’s like you get to drop all the bullshit and just chill. You’ll obviously lose some girls who can’t handle honesty or want you to put on a mask, but so what. We lose girls for a billion other silly reasons; they’re fickle.
Sounds like a bunch of game denialism to me. This is very black and white thinking. Your thinking of just the yes and no girls. But where game works is with the maybe chicks, or on the fencers. These are the women that mask interest by giving you shit test and require witty banter anf game to convert to yes. But the The GLL guys seem to dismiss that fact and think theyre are no and yes girls and game is not a factor.
Explain a guy like this. Im posting him because he puts out real footage unlike alot of fake pick up companies like RSD,
Anybody who cold approaches can tell they are real. Is his game getting laid or would the chicks be into him regardless becuase of looks. I tend to think the former. I doubt he would get the same ressult From GLL style basic guy game. Kinda of hard to tell since most of the chicks faces are blurred, so you cant really see theyre initial impression.
Oh for sure, you’ll definitely win the “maybe” girls over with banter, “push/pull”, etc.
After a certain amount of lays though (maybe somewhere around 50 or 100 lays), a lot of guys can’t be bothered with the on-the-fence girls though, especially when there’s so many “yes girls” out there who’ll be enthusiastic and not require you to “work on them” or “win them over”.
Guys save themselves a lot of hassle if they ignore the maybe girls and spend their time finding the yes girls. It’s a better, more efficient use of your time. (In the time you spend trying to overcome one girl’s shittests, you could have hit on 10 more girls).
I had enough of shittests a long time ago and would rather filter in the enthusiastic “yes girls”. I never enjoyed playing games or jumping through hoops. Shit tests always disgusted me – I find them socially inept and rude/disrespectful. I respect my own time, and I’m not going to waste it on a girl who’s “on the fence” and wants to be difficult.
She’s either in or out.
(Only exception to all this is absolute newbies who should do whatever it takes to get laid.)
EDIT: A more important point – a girl who shit tests you is not even on the fence. She DISRESPECTED YOU. That is a NO, not a “maybe”. An example of a maybe is a girl who’s shy, or a girl who only gives one word answers. Have a fucking backbone; why the hell are you trying to win over a girl who already turned you down?
Does being 100% honest with a girl mean that I should share uncomfortable truths about myself, such as “I am a 28 year old virgin” and “I don’t have any real friends outside of my co-workers, who only rarely do things outside of work”?
Should I just not try to get laid until I have a more active social life?
I’m in good shape, I go biking, running, lifting, that sort of stuff. But I do it all by myself. Really feel like a lack of a social life will limit the kind of girls I might have a chance with.
The real question isn’t should you be honest with a girl… it’s: “what steps have you taken to lose your virginity and make friends?”
I just wrote an article about making friends, read it: https://killyourinnerloser.com/surround-yourself-with-good-people/
Losing your virginity, this is a solid guide: https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/online-dating/how-to-lose-your-virginity-part-1
Right now you’re sitting around theorising and mental-masturbating. Stop thinking “what if?” questions and start taking action. Follow the advice in the two links I posted above and make some actual changes, starting right now.
You got this, bro.
Thanks for responding so quickly. I’ve read both of the links you shared.
Regarding making friends via something like meetup.com… how do you actually “make friends”? Do you just start talking to people? Should I read about how to carry out conversations or get people to like me? I ask because I’ve had lots of experiences where I’ve talked to someone for a bit, and then it just kind of fizzles out and it seems like the person doesn’t want to talk to me. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong in those cases.
Is this just something I have to learn via experience?
Making friends is a numbers game (like everything else). Just attend a bunch of meetups (I went to like 40 different meetups over the span of 2 months). If you’re nervous/shy (I was) you’ll have to force yourself to attend and be social, but it’ll be worth it.
Once you’re there, yeah, just start talking to people. Give yourself permission to suck at it – nobody expects you to be smooth, or always know what to say, or be super chatty. You’re going to have to just jump into the deep end and put yourself in these social situations and just see what happens. You will learn to get better (more confident) over time just by doing it. It is absolutely ok to be awkward and nervous and shit at first. Almost everyone else at these meetups will be nervous too, I promise you.
If things fizzle out with someone, it’s not worth worrying about what you might have “done wrong”. You just didn’t click with that person, so move on and find ones you do click with. Again, it’s a numbers game – talk to 10 people and you’ll end up great friends with at least 1 or 2.
Aright I’m actually doing this. I went today to a church run by expats from the country of my (half) ethnic origin, met a guy deeply involved in the church who promised to help me get set up with language classes and getting involved in cultural events they do. I’m not religious, but I’m trying to learn the language and this will help me meet actual speakers of it.
I found a group on meetup.com that practices lockpicking, which I’ve dabbled in on and off over the years, so I’m gonna check that out this week. Next week the Young Republicans in my city are having a meet, I’ll go to that as well. They seem to do some interesting things politically so I’m excited about where that might lead.
I was scared as shit to go to that church event, but I just went anyway and it wasn’t bad at all. It felt almost surreal, I was like, I’m actually doing this? I’m actually out of the house experiencing the world? Not hard at all. Talking to people there was also pretty easy. So many people went to the country which I am trying to learn the language of, so I had plenty to ask them about and talk about.
I read on a different article that you found a lot of solace in this article during hard times:
I got so nervous before leaving to go to the church, I almost pussed out and didn’t do it. Then I read that article and realized if I never dealt with my fears about doing stuff like that, going out socially and risking rejection/humiliation, I will always be a loser. So I hardened myself up and did it.
All in all, thanks for the resource you have here and the advice you’ve given me. I’m real excited to see who I’m going to meet in the next few weeks. I am 28… so much lost time, so many missed opportunities where I just stayed in my apartment playing video games. I have to make up for all of it.
Man I’m so excited for you. Sounds like you’re finally tackling your issues and DEALING with it by getting out of the house. Your number 1 goal right now, and the only thing I want you to think about is, “I need to be around other human beings as much as I possibly can.” Make it your mission to spend time with other people 7 days a week. Fill your calendar with as many meetups, hangouts, social events, etc as you possibly can, so you always have a tonne to look forward to each week. Treat it like a game, where your goal is to attend as many events as possible. If you do 3 events the first week, aim for 6 the next week, then 10, then the sky’s the limit. In 2 weeks you’ll have a moment where you’re sitting around with a bunch of people having fun, and it’ll hit you: “Holy fucking shit. I am a social person. People like me. How the hell did that happen???”
So much of what you’re going through, I went through too. I didn’t get my shit together until about 27 (I’m 31 now), so if I can do it, you can too.
In the last 4 years I’ve done more living than I ever did in the 27 years before it. You can’t even imagine the type of person you’ll become if you make a habit of running TOWARDS fear instead of away from it (I’ll write an article about this soon).
Great article Andy! This one hit home.
Thanks mate. Keen to see where you take your new site too!
Beyond incredible. It’s just insane how intelligent you are.
Love you brother, appreciate everything.